Archive for Sunday, September 20, 2009
Our View: Pot ordinance goes too far
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- Suzanne Schlicht, general manager
- Brent Boyer, editor
- Mike Lawrence, city editor
- Tom Ross, reporter
- Grant Fenton, community representative
- Paul Strong, community representative
Contact the editorial board at (970) 871-4221 or editor@steamboatpilot.com. Would you like to be a member of the board? Fill out a letter of interest now.
The Steamboat Springs City Council's draft ordinance regulating medical marijuana dispensaries goes too far. Even more concerning is that the planned ordinance's restrictions on commercial speech are unconstitutional.
The ordinance was drafted in response to the opening of two medical marijuana dispensaries within city limits. Although both of those dispensaries opened before an ordinance was put in place, the city subsequently enacted a moratorium on any additional dispensaries until officials had time to draft and approve an ordinance regulating such businesses.
The City Council had its first crack at the draft ordinance this week, and while members correctly removed several over-reaching provisions, their work isn't done.
The most troubling provision is one that states: "Medical marijuana dispensaries shall not display signs or otherwise advertise the presence of marijuana on the premises. This restriction shall include, but shall not be limited to, the use of signage or advertising using the word 'marijuana' or depictions of any portion of the marijuana plant."
In a memo to council, staff attorney Dan Foote wrote that the signage and advertising restrictions "do not present First Amendment problems because the operation of medical marijuana dispensaries is illegal under federal law. The principal purpose of this provision would be to preserve community character."
Foote is wrong, and the council would be wise to reconsider the provision. The bottom line is that a medical marijuana dispensary's conduct has not been challenged and thus is far permissible under Colorado law. There have been a number of cases in California that have protected dispensaries there from efforts by federal authorities to shut them down. But even if a dispensary's conduct were illegal under federal law, the fact that its conduct is legal under state law means it has a First Amendment right to advertise its business. Similarly, the Colorado Constitution's protections for free speech would protect the dispensary's conduct even if the First Amendment didn't.
We are dismayed to learn the city thinks it can unevenly impose limits on constitutionally protected commercial speech.
If community character is a concern, then the council would do better to try to ban all dispensaries rather than place unfair restrictions on some of them. But if, as city officials have previously said, they have no intention of stopping the legal use and distribution of medical marijuana, then they should treat dispensaries like most other businesses, save a couple of minor exceptions.
Instead, the city is preparing to mandate security measures not required of other businesses that sell potentially harmful and addictive substances. According to another measure in the draft ordinance, dispensaries will be required to have 24-hour security surveillance cameras with audio and video capabilities. Sufficient equipment will be required for the monitoring of all entrances and exits to the business as well as associated parking lots and the interior and exterior of the facility. Fifteen days of security video and audio must be preserved for 30 days, and the resolution on the cameras must be of high enough quality for a subject's facial features to be identifiable in all lighting conditions.
As far as we're aware, the same requirements are not made of local liquor stores and pharmacies, which have been victims of theft in recent years. While we agree that security is important and should be required of dispensaries, the proposed requirements should be similar to what is asked of similar businesses.
The city also should be reminded that Colorado residents - including Routt County voters - overwhelmingly approved Amendment 20 in 2009, thereby legalizing marijuana for medicinal use by approved patients. And the administration of President Barack Obama has made clear that federal intervention in states where medical marijuana has been legalized is a low, if not nonexistent, priority.
Given these factors, it seems out of step for our city to be so zealous in its attempt to regulate medical marijuana dispensaries.
Comments
Oscar ( anonymous ) says...
Apparently the SP&T has not been following the results of undercover investigations of California dispensaries showing clearly that these establishments are doling out marijuana to any pot head that walks in, coughs a few times, tells them now much he's in pain, and requests a few lids. No problem, here's a month's supply. Do we really want to follow California's lead and become an attraction for pot heads all over the country. I think not. We need severe restrictions on these dispensaries. I think anyone who gets medical marijuana should have a doctor's prescription.
September 20, 2009 at 8:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Troutguy ( anonymous ) says...
While we're at it, we should bring back alcohol prohibition. Do we really want to become an attraction for drunks. Maybe sell cigarettes by prescription only. Why are so many people afraid of marijuana. Compared to booze and smokes, weed is about as harmful as a glazed donut.
Annual Alcohol deaths in U.S. ---- 85,000
Annual tobacco deaths in U.S. --- 435,000
Annual aspirin, Ibuprofen,etc. deaths---7,600
Annual marijuana deaths in U.S.---0
Come on people. Open your eyes and see what are the dangerous drugs in our society.
As a nation, we spend $7.6 billion keeping marijuana illegal. In 2003, 755,000 Americans were incarcerated for marijuana possession. And yet there seems to be no less supply of pot on our streets.
September 20, 2009 at 9:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
blue_spruce ( anonymous ) says...
The "war on drugs" is a complete fiasco. Just like prohibition, it fuels the black market and therefore violent crime. We need to remove the black market from the equation (and the billions of dollars it creates for violent criminals including the Taliban!) and treat the problem head on. It is a sickness that we can only reasonably confront if we regulate it and control it. WHAT WE HAVE DONE UP UNTIL NOW IS A COMPLETE FAILURE. WAKE UP PEOPLE!
September 20, 2009 at 10:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
callguinness ( anonymous ) says...
Oscar -
The dispensaries are just selling marijuana, just like a pharmacy is just selling narcotics. In order to buy these items you have to have Rx from a doctor. Not just anyone can walk in and buy the stuff, basically I don't see the Marijuana dispensaries as anything different than a pharmacy.
September 20, 2009 at 1:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Hey Oscar, just in case some one wanted to follow all of the results for these UNDERCOVER investigations into the dispensaries in CA, where would they be best to look first? I would love to pour over the alleged information about dispensaries operating as nothing more than some street-corner-standin'-dope-dealer.
You seem to be another properly groomed sheep that's well versed in the propaganda that your government has supplied you with. Had you done ANY of your own research before puking out your "opinion" about this article, you would have known that there is not a dispensary in the nation that will GIVE medical marijuana to any ol' Joe Blow with a complaint. Medicine is not dispensed until the patient produces his/her STATE ISSUED medical marijuana license. A state issued medical marijuana license is not issued to a patient until the state's Department of Health receives an ORIGINAL application form with a signature from a DOCTOR that endorses the patient's NEED for this particular brand of medicine.
You people out there that just spit out the same old GARBAGE about the "dangers" of marijuana and how it's a "gateway" drug that just leads you down a path of death, destruction and devil-worship.......YOU people need to hit the brakes for a second and take a look around. If you don't see much, there's a good chance your head is going the wrong way through your own digestive system(decided to keep it G-rated, despite my fury over this issue).
People are starting to not listen to the "wisdom" of old. They're beginning to think for themselves and they're discovering that there have been a lot of lies fed to them by their government. And to quote a favorite movie of mine, "...and they're VERY pissed-off."
September 20, 2009 at 5:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justice4all ( anonymous ) says...
If it is truely a necesary drug, is legal and necessary, then let it be dispensed by a licensed pharmacy.
September 20, 2009 at 9:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Scott_Wedel ( Scott Wedel ) says...
The City would appear to be undercutting their own free speech argument. If the dispensary is to be given rules under which they are allowed to operate in SB then how can the City then claim the business is illegal and not worthy of constitutional protections? Makes no sense.
Second, a marijuana leaf is not illegal speech. Some drywall contractor that wanted publicity could call himself MJ's Drywall with a company logo of a marijuana leaf.
September 20, 2009 at 10:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
NchronicPain ( anonymous ) says...
What a fantastic editorial. Thank YOU!!
The council will be amending the ordinance, or lawsuits will come.
Oscar, when you refer to the measurement that marijuana is sold in as a "lid".....you date yourself and throw all credibility out the window. Thanks for adding a humorous comment to the section. It did little more than make people chuckle.
September 21, 2009 at 9:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
2ndhomeowner ( anonymous ) says...
It seems to me this debate is really about those who want marijuana use to be legalized and those who don't. The statistics on those who have a prescription would not support one store, let alone all the new ones. It is likely a number of people are hoping the stores present opportunities for easier and even cheaper supplies - and/or that doctors will be more accommodating with prescriptions. Otherwise, what difference does it make? Pharmacies have controls on supplies coming in and going out - I wonder what controls will exist on marijuana coming in or grown, and what is sold via prescription?
September 21, 2009 at 10:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
So, how would you feel if someone wanted to sell "male enhancement" products next door to the MMJ dispensary and insisted on having an erection displayed on the sign?
Some things are simply offensive to the general public, and the City has a vested interest in barring them from public display.
Take what you've got and be glad it's decriminalized. Can't you just do that and stop short of insisting that it be baked into the brownies served at Strawberry Park Elementary School?
September 21, 2009 at 11:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
2ndhomeowner....must be nice.
Coming from someone that hasn't gone through the whole process and has exactly ZERO first hand experience with the current system, you sure do seem to have a lot of firm opinions and beliefs about it all.
You are correct in ass-uming that most of the "legalize it" crowd would love to see lower prices on our medicine. I would venture a guess that most people in our crowd do NOT own a second, or maybe even their first, home. I don't. However, if our medicine was slightly more economically feasible, maybe, more of us would be afforded that opportunity. Due to the black market that has been created for this drug, in large part because of our government's policies, some of us are forced to choose between our medicine and phone bills from month to month. Realizing that some of you might not see that point in the same light that someone who medicates this way would, I feel the need to explain further.
What if you had some of these same regulations, stigmas and taboos revolving around some of the medication in your medicine cabinet? What if aspirin was held in the same regard? How would you feel if you were in our position? When's the last time you felt like you had to fight for something that you felt should be one of your rights? Honestly, have any of you "nae-sayers" tried to walk a mile in our shoes?
September 21, 2009 at 12:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Jeff_Kibler ( Jeff Kibler ) says...
aicHEMPty - Isn't it ironic that you chose HEMP as your middle name?
September 21, 2009 at 1:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
2ndhomeowner ( anonymous ) says...
I have lived with "chronic pain" for over five years but many medicines are now available at pharmacies for $4 a month. There are many choices to help - I seriously doubt that smoking marijuana is any better than taking tramadol or similar. Many chronic pain sufferers take their pills and live an active life, can drive, go to work, etc. I wonder if one can smoke or injest enough marijuana to help with the pain but still be able to go to work and balance a spreadsheet, drive your kids to school, or go for a long bike ride. Again, this is likely about something else, not pain relief or commercial laws.
September 21, 2009 at 1:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Once again, your ignorance precedes you. You've either thought up or been told all these things about "potheads" that are simply not true. The views you present are akin to those that were paramount in films like Reefer Madness, assuming you've seen all of your government's propaganda. It appears obvious to me that you've never even experienced the blessing of being medicated with marijuana. If I am wrong, I would love to hear from you just how much experience you have with this substance, other than reading about it or hearing about it third-hand. It's very easy to go through life and repeat the things that other people say. If you can get enough people to believe something you've told them, it must be true, right?
I challenge you, sir or ma'am, to discover the truth for yourself. Do your own research on the subject. Research the internet for connections between our forefathers and cannabis. Google, "marijuana as medicine, food, fuel, fabric or rope," and if you don't find anything, please let me know. I am, by no means, telling you that you should go light up a big fat Marley. That decision lies, solely and exclusively, with the individual. Use it, or don't, that's up to you. But please do not expect anyone of experience in this arena to respect your opinion until it is a valid one. At the moment, being a non-user, you only have half of the story or, at best, experience with some imbecile that mis-used this sacred substance. All that you have is what you've been told or a memory of some idiot with a joint acting like a bafoon. I would also challenge you to call and set an appointment to visit one of our local dispensaries and visit with a compassionate caregiver that can tell you about some of the illnesses they aid in combating and how it affects the lives of some of their patients. I challenge you to research the answers to the questions that you've asked. This is the age of free information. So, to possess or claim ignorance on an issue or argument that you're inserting your opinion into is completely inexcusable. Please correct yourself and try again later.
September 21, 2009 at 2:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Jeff_Kibler ( Jeff Kibler ) says...
2nd - I'm glad you've found pharmaceuticals that address your pain.
What works for you may not work for others.
I wish that medical MJ was available when my mom was going thru chemo for ovarian cancer in the 1990's. All we could do was hold the puke bucket for her. We never considered MJ. We were not aware of its efficacy. Anti-nausea drugs are much better today.
Vioxx saved my life (it kept me from eating a gun). It was the only drug that worked. The Doc's tried many others, including Celebrex. Try to get Vioxx today.
People taking darvocet, vicodin, hydrocodone et al are plying the highways every day. Even hypertension meds "may cause dizziness."
If someone is impaired, for whatever reason, they should not drive. I think there is a false sense of security just because the drug came from a pharmacy.
September 21, 2009 at 3 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BillyD ( anonymous ) says...
2ndhomeowner. I hope you are not suggesting you are driving your kids around taking opioids. You really are missing the boat.
September 21, 2009 at 3:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Jeff,
HEMP was chosen on purpose. Congrats. You figured it out. You're the first to mention it. That ought to tell you something about everybody else, eh? (Oh, no, pot ain't never gonna hurt me . . . )
HMPT is an acronym for Human-factors, manpower, personnel and training. We're the guys who figure out what it takes for people to be successful at various military occupations, and almost without exception the heaviest pot users are the dumbest candidates. Whether one causes the other is not known, but they sure go together.
Grocery baggers and shuttle bus drivers who have radio dispatchers to keep them on schedule tend to be right down there at the bottom of the IQ scale. Painters are a cut above. People who empty the trash are just below.
A mind that's already dull tends to crave even further isolation from external stimuli. A mind that's dulled by drugs tends to seek out occupations which don't require much more than showing up and paying someone to help them file a 1040A every year to get their tax refund. Cartoons appeal to both categories. It's a very juvenile state of being where even short term memory isn't important and being given one or two simple tasks to perform (one at a time) is the limit.
Did I tell you about the framing carpenter who showed up without a hammer, saw or square? He didn't think he'd need them, but was willing to go back and get them if it was a big deal . . . .
And all this leads me to believe that if demerol grew on a bush, there would be people who would treat it just like pot is treated, but there would be fatal consequences. Maybe the answer is that pot is popular because it's not immediately fatal and it makes heavy users too dumb to care about the occupational and lifestyle consequences. After all, what's better than being dumb AND happy with it?
September 21, 2009 at 3:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
I was a long time self-medicating type years before I opted to take advantage of the right my native state provides to me to use marijuana as my medicine according to the law. I am also ex-military. I was a huge "stoner," if you will, for 3+ years before signing my life away and taking the ASVAB(Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery) Test @ age 20. If "potheads" are your lowest scoring candidates, or "dumbest" as you so eloquently put it, then how in the hell did I get an 86/99 on it. Does this mean that the military is filled with our nation's dumbest idiots? Of coarse not. What a ridiculous notion! But someone in the media could do a hell of a job spinning it to seem that way, right? Just because you work for the same propaganda machine that's been swearing up and down about the evils of this "devil's weed," doesn't make you right. You seem to have this amazing sense of self-righteousness about you, most likely invoked by your career choice, that probably gets in your way more than it helps you. You spend your days immersed in a system that is so corrupt and biased that it'll be over 10 TRILLION dollar$ in debt, that's United States Dollars, in just under 12 years, no wonder you're so jaded about the whole damn thing.
If sitting there on your butt and talking trash about a group of people you do NOT know, personally, makes you feel better as a person, then bang up job buddy! You can now proudly join the ranks of the other mindless American sheep that inspire a good majority of the world to view the current America in a very, very dim light. Congratulations sir!!!
September 21, 2009 at 3:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
And as far as "being dumb and happy with it" goes, maybe you should look into what the people that founded this very country thought about cannabis. All that you're basing your very imaginative opinion on is a bucket full of lies that your government has supplied you with. As long as you keep listening to them, they'll keep it coming.
September 21, 2009 at 4:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Duke_bets ( anonymous ) says...
mmj - I was just about to ask you a question and then you answered it. Did you smoke marijuana before it was prescribed to you? You stated that you were a huge "stoner". In that case, all of your pro arguments are extremely biased. I would like to know the stats based on those that have or have not smoked weed prior to the marijuana that they are now prescribed.
Without looking it up...............Here's the results.....Marijuana is prescribed to marijuana users 100% of the time. Duke bets that nobody had their first taste of marijuana via a prescription from a doctor.
September 21, 2009 at 4:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
If you wanted to get all technical and ridiculous about things, why didn't you just say so?
1. I first tried marijuana at the age of 15.
2. My first experience did NOT lead to addiction. It was a solo incident that was not followed up by any immediate, prolonged usage.
3. Me being a self-proclaimed "stoner" before I became an MMJ patient has absolutely, 100% everything with me being an MMJ patient right now. What reason would I have to NOT be an MMJ Patient according to Colorado State law? When I began using marijuana as a pain manager, which was after the date Amendment 20 was passed, I might have been a "stoner" but it was only because of the fact that I could not afford to go through all of the doctors visits and application fees to be legally deemed a "registered patient" in Colorado. Technically(insert goofy Pee-Wee Herman word of the day sound effects here), there is nothing in the law that states you have to be a registered patient. Only that you must have a doctor's recommendation. If marijuana aids me in pain prevention and pain management, why in the hell would I pass up an opportunity to, under the umbrella of the law, use my medicine, in private and without harming one single, solitary soul on this planet?
4. There are countless stories of marijuana rescuing people who have been bogged-down and burdened with modern medicines, that have been prescribed by their doctors, only to find that every other thing on a pharmacy shelf, including the junk in their own medicine cabinet, leads to more trouble than they claim to fix in the first place. All you have to do is turn on your TV and wait for the newest drug, from the best company, to tell you all about the wonderful life you COULD be having, if you'd only take their latest chemical cocktail for your problem. People are dancing around, smiling, holding hands......then comes the legal-eese in the background......"may cause irritable bowel syndrome, bleeding from the eyes, tumors on your toe-nails, glow in the dark hair, gran-mal seizures and spontaneous combustion......"
5. Side effects of marijuana: Smiles, giggles, munchies, tingling, the ability to sit and listen to people attentively, thirst, a little coughing......need I continue?
September 21, 2009 at 6:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
6. You're absolutely right Duke. Most people that are introduced to the concept of medical marijuana in person, and subsequently become a patient, were introduced to it by someone that believes in it's power and probably did not have a problem with giving a little demonstration. They, most likely, did not hold a gun to the persons head and make them inhale or ingest it. Do you honestly believe someone would go through all the trouble of becoming a registered MMJ patient if they did not already believe and/or know that it was something that would help them? My god, at this point, I think the only off-ramp left on this free-way of logic leads us to accept the fact that most all MMJ patients have tried marijuana before being legally allowed to. How does this preclude one from producing an unbiased opinion on the subject? If anything, maybe it makes them all the more qualified to speak on the subject?
7. "Duke bets" is a very narcissistic way to start a sentence, especially when it's your screen name. It doesn't help people that might try to take you seriously (not that that could have possibly been one of your primary concerns).
......that'll have to hold you over for now. The season premier of "House" is on in 5 minutes and I need to medicate.
September 21, 2009 at 6:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DRCaddell ( David Caddell ) says...
Cannabis has been used for medicinal purposes dating back to ancient human history. As with any other substance with curative properties, excess exposure leads to poisoning, however the proper dose carries incredible healing power.
After thousands of years of healing experience with this plant, it appears absurd to me that so many people live with their heads in the sand - specifically the mainstream medical community which is driven by profit to push potentially harmful pharmaceuticals upon unsuspecting patients.
Have you noticed that over half the time spent on pharmaceutical advertising is filled with the potential hazards of the drug? Cannabis serves to heal many common and sometimes devastating ailments with a fraction of the harmful side effects of industrial pharmaceuticals. I encourage everyone to do their own research and develop their own informed opinions - because your health is your responsibility.
I am not advocating blind consumption of this powerful plant - simply that we open our eyes to it's healing qualities as well as its true dangers rather than banish the substance outright.
It is doubtless true that a large number of people abuse cannabis, however many other people abuse much more harmful medications of all kinds - and, surely, we would not want to close down every pharmacy in the world simply for the possibility that someone may abuse potentially devastating substances such as OxyContin or Percocet.
As has already been well stated - alcohol is nothing other than pure poison without any healing qualities whatsoever. The consumption of alcohol is encouraged all over town and is even celebrated with the annual Wine Festival and OctoberWest!
Why does our community advocate the consumption of pure poison and banish that which heals? Please people - look reasonably upon this.
Those who choose to approach life through eyes of fear will always find a potential for harm in every aspect of human experience - and what kind of a life is that? Shall we close down the ski mountain because people frequently become injured up there?
On every lift pass it reads that the holder of the pass is responsible for the assumption of risk involved with the sport of skiing. I contend that it would be proper to provide the public (specifically children) with factually-based education on the benefits and potential dangers of cannabis. I believe that upon reaching adulthood we are all responsible for our own actions and their consequences.
And with regard to the comment that an image of a cannabis leaf would be viewed as offensive... such an image is a representation of nature no different than the maple leaf on the Canadian flag. To whom would such an image cause offense - and why?
Here is a quote from the poet Rumi for your contemplation:
"Why do you stay in prison
when the door is so wide open?
Move outside the tangle of fear-thinking.
Live in silence."
September 21, 2009 at 9:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Is there an echo in here?
September 21, 2009 at 10:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DRCaddell ( David Caddell ) says...
Hey mmjPatient22 - I just noticed that we both made reference to the great potential of dangerous side effects in mainstream pharmaceuticals.
Of course, some mainstream pharmaceuticals are the correct prescription for some ailments. As with the medicinal benefit of cannabis, I would not want to imply that all mainstream pharmaceuticals should be banned.
I believe we simply need to open our eyes to facts and reason.
Additionally, I applaud the Steamboat Pilot & Today for their reasonable commentary on this issue.
September 21, 2009 at 10:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
I can't help but be a smart-a$$. I'm glad to see another person on the same page David.
September 21, 2009 at 10:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DRCaddell ( David Caddell ) says...
God bless, mmjPatient22 - may you live in health, peace and happiness!
September 21, 2009 at 10:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Unfortunately, or fortunately, however you look at it, god does not exist. I appreciate the thought though.
September 22, 2009 at 12:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
mmj,
Let me clear it up for you. A heavy pot user, regardless of native IQ, performs about where a person with an IQ of 80 would be in most tasks. The short-term memory loss and dullness account for most of it. The other factor which IQ does not account for is associated with ambition and motivation. There are many high IQ folks who are basically lazy and content to settle for less rather than put out the effort to succeed in challenging occupations, and whether the drugs make them lack ambition or whether the lack of ambition makes them seek comfort in mood-altering substances is a matter of debate.
So, what I'm saying is that many people who could function at a high level consider it to be too much work, and some of them pave over the resulting guilt, shame, loss, pain and depressed standard of living by self medicating.
My personal belief is that pharmaceuticals should be avoided, period. Only when the medical condition will lead to an early death or has a measurable impact on daily quality of life are they warranted. Some people like to take pills and get attention from doctors, and that's just as bad as drinking too much alcohol or staying stoned on pot. Addictive personalities find addictions, and that includes a demand for attention in the form of medical care.
If smoking marijuana would prevent old ladies from getting osteoporosis and breaking their hips, I'd be all for it.
Substance abuse is a form of mental illness. There are no two ways about it. Substance USE for medicinal purposes has a place in our society. The trick is in knowing the difference and avoiding slipping from beneficial use to harmful abuse.
Marijuana is banned under Federal law because of the substantial risk of abuse. Drug abuse by healthy people damages our society and weakens our country in unimaginable ways every day. As I have posted before in other threads, my own loss of productivity due to someone else's poor performance resulting from substance abuse is something I can measure in dollars and cents. Maybe you can't do that, but when you look at the cost of anything you purchase, some of that cost is due to lost productivity by substance abusers.
Valid medicinal use is not the problem. Abuse is the issue, and unfortunately, a lot of trafficking seems to go on around "legal" medical marijuana operations. It goes with the territory, and if "legal" users didn't allow it to happen, nobody would have a reason to complain.
I'm not angry at you for being a user. You are angry at me for telling the truth about what pot does to otherwise healthy people. Fire burns, falling objects injure, and marijuana dulls the brain. None of those things are my fault.
September 22, 2009 at 10:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Troutguy ( anonymous ) says...
Aich, did you really just smackdown grocery baggers, shuttle bus drivers, painters and trash collectors in your previous comment?! It takes someone with a special talent to be able to judge someone without ever meeting them. While i respect your opinions, I have a problem when you degenerate other people's professions and lifestyles.
September 22, 2009 at 11:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
aich.....you're killing me dude.
So are you saying a majority of MMJ patients also possess a mental illness? Have you ever stopped and listened to yourself? You sound like you should be one of those useless, corrupt pieces of feces on capitol hill!!! Are you DEA or something?
September 22, 2009 at 11:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Banning something for it's potential to be abused......kinda reminds me of alcohol prohibition. Boy, that turned out well!
Let's just take all the guns away!!! Heaven forbid someone should abuse one of those things!!!
September 22, 2009 at 11:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Random things happening are probably not your fault. The only thing you can be blamed for is your asinine opinions and extremely retarded story about a bad trip to the lumber yard.
Your ridiculousness has left me with no other option than to abandon the pursuit of logic with you. Go find someone that'll buy your BS, 'cause I ain't the one homie.
September 22, 2009 at 11:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
1999 ( anonymous ) says...
aich says...Marijuana is banned under Federal law because of the substantial risk of abuse.
hahahahahaha....that is not why it's banned.
then why don't we ban alchohol, oxycotin, percocet, TV, etc etc etc.
and seriously...your slam against grocery baggers, trash collectors painters etc is truly uncalled for and amazing rude.
your idiocy knows no bounds
September 22, 2009 at 12:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Wow!!! I guess I'm not the only who thinks this guy needs a party-size 6ft knuckle sandwich. (That's 72 inches for all of us idiots out there)
Maybe someday, with a little luck, we can all be cool enough to be better than everyone else, like aich.
September 22, 2009 at 12:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
How did so many idiots learn to use the internet?
September 22, 2009 at 1:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
When a person makes the conscious decision to reject something that will ease the "wracking pain" in their body, without inducing serious side-effects, what makes them eligible to bitch at people that do choose to ease their pain?
September 22, 2009 at 1:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
NchronicPain ( anonymous ) says...
Dave Ege..... I think you wanted to lay into Aich, not Trout... :-/
Man.....it used to only be me and Aich....back & forth....those were the days..... I tried, months back to sink a little sense into ole AicHEMPty-humpty-dumpty..... It didn't work. I see it only festered more madness and lunacy. I once thought the Aich-i-nator was starting to come around. But, it seems this deep-seeded bigotry runs deep in the marrow.... I hope, one day, someone Aich really loves and respects needs the miraculous healing power of medical Cannabis (and hopefully this person is bright enough to see through the shroud of lies and judgemental assumptions forced upon them by Aich-like people) and they experience for themselves the reality of this medicinal plant. I wonder if Aich would immediately toss this loved-one into the same pile as all of us other mistake-makin' fools? It seems Aicher, and IT'S new friend 2ndhomeowner, expect for people, even loved ones I'm sure, to be at the mercy of doctors and our governement. We are all suppose to put on our wool coats and herd around like sheep?... WRONG.....
Some of us make SENSIble decisions and think for ourselves.
sensiblecolorado.org
Americans For Safe Access
NORML USA
September 22, 2009 at 1:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Trout,
There are certain intellectual and motor skills required to perform certain tasks. A genius can bag groceries if he wants to. Somebody else may not be capable of doing it at all due to an intellectual deficit. My point is that people who abuse substances to the extent that their intellectual performance is impaired tend to function at a below-normal level.
The Horizons clients we see working around town at appropriate jobs are an excellent example of people with impairments who can be productive at a below-normal intellectual level. I'd say that a guy with average intelligence who habitually uses pot to the point where his short-term memory is impaired may be functioning around the same level as a person with below-normal intelligence.
I'm not trying to insult anybody. Reality is what it is. People who choose to be underemployed to live around here have made their own choices freely. That doesn't change the fact that a person with a sixth-grade education can drive a city bus (like my grandfather did for 25 years).
mmjetc,
I'm not your ex-law enforcement relative. I've got a good bit of experience with malingerers and drug users however, and unfortunately, it's hard to tell the difference without seeing a person's face.
In general, when you walk into the ER to investigate an injury and the victim is smiling, he's not really in pain. People who are in pain don't smile. If you are smiling when you light up, you don't need it.
This is getting pretty funny. You're making threats against me for stating obvious facts about drug abuse.
It's legal already. What's the big deal? Enjoy.
September 22, 2009 at 1:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Chronie,
I agreed with you before that as long as medical marijuana is legal at the state level, and the feds have stopped prosecuting those who obey the state laws, there's no reason to complain about it.
My mother in law has been through chemo three times in the past four years and I wouldn't hesitate to help her obtain pot if she wanted it. She doesn't. It's her choice.
The problem MMJ patients have right now is that there are a lot of users and providers who appear to be breaking the law by trafficking outside of the authorized limits and users.
The other problem is that most new users in Colorado are males under 30 years of age. Females are usually the ones who seek medication for chronic pain, so why the discrepancy? (Isn't it obvious?).
If I needed it, I would obtain it and use it. I even have a place in my home where I could grow it in soil without using pots. I guess the difference is that I wouldn't be flying a marijuana leaf flag and hanging Cheech and Chong posters around the house.
It's one thing to read your Bible before bedtime, and another to stand on the street corner preaching to passers by. Why are MMJ patients so militant about it if there's not something deeper going on?
September 22, 2009 at 1:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
For the record, I did NOT make threats against you. I merely made notice of a seemingly common opinion. May you live a very long and prosperous, physically-harm-free existence that revolves completely around only you. May you live long enough to suffer the natural consequences of your extreme self-righteousness.
September 22, 2009 at 2:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
And there is something deeper going on. We who use, generally, are of the opinion that the current federal laws are way beyond ridiculous. Most of us would like to see an America that will one day wake up and realize that marijuana is the most absurd thing humans could think of to make illegal. There are multiple multi-thousand member strong groups out there, which have some of our nations best and brightest in their ranks, that support the legalization of this plant that once helped our country through tough times. There are a lot of people out there that see the historical resume of hemp and are furious over the fact that our society is ignoring the armada of products that marijuana cultivation, on a gross scale, provides for.
Since imagination seems to be pretty popular around here, let's take a quick, scenic detour:
"...well, what do we do about keeping all of our kids away from these huge fields of POT?!?!?! Surely, the avenue of destruction presents itself, plain as day..." Well, Mr. & Mrs. Smith, that's not really a concern. Industrial hemp, grown for industrial applications, is a completely different plant from the one that's grown for medication purposes.
All I'm fighting for is the idea that the current hemp prohibition is completely absurd and only serves to further the image of American ignorance to the rest of the world.
September 22, 2009 at 2:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
NchronicPain ( anonymous ) says...
OK, Aich, so if your mother-in-law would've wanted some mmj to help her during chemo, you would've helped her get some? hmmmmmm, would you consider her worthless once she medicated? You sure are proud of yourself and your life. How about encouraging others, rather than judging them and tearing them down?
These articles in the Pilot ALL are referring to medical marijuana, but it seems everyone sees a Cheech and Chong poster or a Bob Marley flag when they think of marijuana. As patients, we don't. Seeds of corruption were planted in our government during the times of Harry Aslinger and his friends..... ever since we have had some serious mind-warping going on. That is the deeper issue here.
September 22, 2009 at 3:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
trump_suit ( anonymous ) says...
Aich = 2x4 on this issue!!!!! No more needs to be said.
September 22, 2009 at 3:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Aich says..."It's one thing to read your Bible before bedtime, and another to stand on the street corner preaching to passers by. Why are MMJ patients so militant about it if there's not something deeper going on?"
You've helped connect the nail to hammer's head. As much as I writhe in chagrin at most of your comments, I must admit that even you are helping our cause. Your "arguments" only serve to point out the general ignorance on the issue and the affects of years of government propaganda being pumped into the system.
So I guess, in a way, thanks. Keep up the good work.
September 22, 2009 at 3:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seeuski ( anonymous ) says...
Duke_bets......" I would like to know the stats based on those that have or have not smoked weed prior to the marijuana that they are now prescribed.
Without looking it up:::::Here's the results:..Marijuana is prescribed to marijuana users 100% of the time. Duke bets that nobody had their first taste of marijuana via a prescription from a doctor."
This may be the first time seeuski is on the same page, what a riot.
How was my grammar?
September 22, 2009 at 5:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Skifreelivelove ( anonymous ) says...
"We want legalization, decriminalization and emancipation for all those victim's. To incarceration for participation with the healing of the nation. It's just another age of politcal insanity. Abusing the rights of humanity. But we should all plant a seed of this weed that we need to provide an ecological calamaty.We can use it for paper to help save some trees, use it for fuel to save some seas, use it for medicine to help fight disease, and use it for food when we are hungry. Give me the ganja cookie and herbal tea sensimilla is irie. I don't care what no government say, sensimilla is OK!" -Pato Banton
September 22, 2009 at 6:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seeuski ( anonymous ) says...
Far out.
September 22, 2009 at 7:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Scott_Wedel ( Scott Wedel ) says...
I know for a fact that someone's first use of marijuana was for medical. An older person unable to keep food down while on chemo and becoming dangerous underweight was told to try it. And used it only to gain weight and stopped once chemo was over.
But there is no denying that many that use medical marijuana have been using it recreationally for years.
But that undercuts the argument that it is a dangerous drug if so many people can use it for years with few emergency room visits, deaths or withdraw symptoms.
It is so easy available that anyone today that wants it can get it. So it is hard to believe that if it was made legal that there would be any great change in usage.
September 23, 2009 at 1:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seeuski ( anonymous ) says...
Scott,
Any chance that weed heads are abusing the medical marijuana laws for party purposes?
It's not like most of us don't have life experiences with this drug.
I found an interesting thread where posters are discussing their experiences.
Quite compelling to me as I have been there done that.
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Anxiety/...
September 23, 2009 at 7:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Okay, to tie up a few loose ends . . .
My mother in law is over 80 years old. She retired from a long and productive career years ago. She supported her daughters through college after their father's untimely death before the age of 50. She has suffered terribly from the effects of chemo, cancer and old age. Nobody expects her to be productive in the workplace or in society anymore. She's paid her dues. Her situation is quite different from a young man still in his productive years.
mmj, I'm not against medical marijuana as long as it's being legally dispensed and used. You've got a real chip on your shoulder, and I suspect that's a big part of your problems all around. You are choosing to use a substance that is regularly abused in our community and has been trafficked by people with MM licenses. Like it or not, suspicion goes with the territory. If we all saw that MMJ was being used responsibly and legally, there would be no reason to complain or doubt the motivations of the licensed users.
Marijuana abuse is a vast public health problem. You might as well be campaigning for unprotected sex and repeal of DUI laws. You're on the wrong side of an emotional issue and learning to deal with it and use MMJ legally -- and really being someone who needs it because nothing else will help you -- is the thing you should do.
If MMJ is proven to be safe and effective over time, it will be legalized. The best thing for you to do is be an example of a responsible MMJ user, and to turn in the people who are not. That's what a responsible person would do.
September 23, 2009 at 8:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Being a cop calling snitch is responsible?
September 23, 2009 at 9:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Scott_Wedel ( Scott Wedel ) says...
Aic,
"Marijuana abuse is a vast public health problem. You might as well be campaigning for unprotected sex and repeal of DUI laws"
That doesn't make sense trying to group together unprotected sex which is unwise, but legal; repeal of DUI laws which is a legal activity (drinking) that makes another activity (driving) into a public menace and so DUI is illegal; and MJ which is unwise and illegal.
Are you are suggesting that the others should follow the model for marijuana and we should make drinking and unprotected sex illegal?
Or that we should follow the model for alcohol and make marijuana legal, but have laws that protect the public from impaired drivers and such?
Or are you arguing in favor of the unprotected sex model in which everything involving consenting adults is legal, but there is an educational effort to encourage people to act responsibly?
It seems that marijuana is less of a "gateway" drug among users than it is for drug dealers. That drug dealers learn the business via marijuana and then proceed to the more serious and higher profit drugs.
September 23, 2009 at 9:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Of all the words used to describe a snitch, I don't think that "responsible" is among the most popular.
Maybe one of these days you'll actually recognize that it's not about abusers or legal users and how they should be regulated/persecuted/ridiculed/chastised by the likes of you. The whole thing boils down to the fact that it shouldn't be classified as a schedule 1 narcotic in the first place because it's a god damned plant. Granted, there are a few drugs out there that come from a plant, but not before going through some serious processing and altering. There are, and should still be, laws that punish people for being retarded on pot while endangering someone else. This would include DUI or DWI laws to target impaired drivers. The only problem is, there are no drug tests available today that can detect marijuana usage, definitively, with-in a 24-hour period. All that the drug tests of today prove is that it's been introduced to someone's system with-in under a month. With-out the ability to produce accurate test results, proving a person's level of intoxication, and subsequent fault, at the time of an incident, there is no way to justly or fairly prosecute these people.
But I know you've probably got this whole thing all figured out and have a whole book's worth of strategy and tactic for solving all of this.....so, let's hear it aichy.....
September 23, 2009 at 10:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Skifreelivelove ( anonymous ) says...
Seeuski,
really sounds like someone from cmc, ever heard the term seemeski. Well I have been there done that and the main problem is alchohol being abused for party purposes and people who die from drinking and driving. When I first moved to Steamboat there was a study done on DUI's stating Colorado was number one for dui arrests and Steamboat was the number one city for dui arrests in the state. My father was killed five days before I was born as he was hit head on by a 19 year old drunk driver while riding his brand new harleydavidson. Oh ya seeuski that thread more of a discussion on the imbalance of chemicals in your brain and had nothing to do with medical patients abusing the laws. Good disccusion though..
Hey Aichyhemptomy,
Your mom is old and there may be no hope for that, I believe that this is about the future of not only our country but the world. Out with the old and in with the new. My friends and I would allways joke about how bad the mountain sucked and how much better it will be when all of the people that have lived here for 30 years finally die. Can't fight against the youth.. Maybe you would not be so paranoid or suspicious if marijuana was legal, then what would you complain about. The health issue is a concern for users who smoke marijuana and not for those who consume it in food. There is no health affects for the consumption of THC. Hemp is a distinct variety of the plant species Cannabis sativa L. Hempseed is considered by leading researchers and medical doctors to be one of the most nutritious food sources on the planet. Hemp will be like the Internet, which two years ago wasn't even on the corporate or government radar screen. Two years from now, knowledge of hemp and its products will have spread to homes and businesses throughout the world. Hemp's versatility was explained in a 1938 Popular Mechanics magazine article, "New Billion-Dollar Crop": "Hemp is the standard fiber of the world:and can be used to produce more than 25,000 products."
September 23, 2009 at 10:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Aichy.....the reason it may appear that I have a chip on my shoulder is because it really torques me the wrong way when people refuse to even attempt to understand an opposing viewpoint on something. Ignorance and close-mindedness really get to me because they stain our society and the rest of the world can't help but look at us in befuddlement when they see some of the crap that's allowed to take place in our allegedly free and democratic society.
Once again, again, and again marijuana gets tossed in the same bucket of s#/t as a whole host of truly bad things in our world. This, again, ties into the main argument. There are things that are consumed on, a daily basis, by a huge number of people that cause them much more harm than marijuana EVER would or could. These things, also proven to often be more addictive than marijuana, are not only legal but much more abused than marijuana. The argument here is that marijuana is receiving "special" treatment from our legal system because they've figured out how to sustain countless jobs and make BILLIONS of dollars from the prosecution, imprisonment and fining of it's users through the prohibition of marijuana. During the Bush-era, marijuana arrest statistics did not see one, single year of decline. In fact, marijuana arrests/convictions grew at a staggering rate during the entire Bush administration.
From every piece of garbage I've read through-out the internet, it seems as though most of the tax-paying citizens that would like to see the continuation of marijuana prohibition, fail to mention the monumental sums of money that their government is collecting from them in order to sustain this absurdity. I would like to know how some of you feel about your government sub-contracting it's prison systems to the private sector. Follow the logic.....tax-payer sustained government, giving tax-payer money, to private corporations, to make money off of the imprisonment of "potheads." I don't know if this is scary to anyone else, but I sure don't like the idea of privatized jails that are motivated by profit. Having a business model that involves imprisoning people for profit, at least in my book, is not all that short of evil.
Can anyone provide some LOGICAL defense for this outrageous "fiscal responsibility"?
September 23, 2009 at 11:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
"Follow the logic:..tax-payer sustained government, giving tax-payer money, to private corporations, to make money off of the imprisonment of "potheads." "
Forgive me for failing to state that the a fore mentioned "potheads" also pay their taxes. So do the dispensaries, the growers and every MMJ patient.
September 23, 2009 at 11:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jk ( anonymous ) says...
Scott, Very well stated it will be interesting to hear the rebuttal to that.
seeuski, I have been following another thread where you have been on the bandwagon chastising another poster about cut and pasting propoganda. Here you are doing the same thing. So if you don't have an original thought maybe you shouldn't be a hypocrite.
September 23, 2009 at 11:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
"Of all the words used to describe a snitch, I don't think that "responsible" is among the most popular."
People who tolerate criminal behavior should not be surprised when they become victims and then cannot find anyone who cares.
When some stoner finds out you're a MMJ patient and then breaks into your house and steals your -- cough cough -- medicine, how much help do you think you'll get from the local cops. It cuts both ways.
September 23, 2009 at 1:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
Bandmama just has to ask, has anyone in the above posts ever experienced the positive effects of hemp hearts as a dietary supplement? No buzz involved, I promise aichemty!!!!
but for arguements sake, lets look at a few positve things about the plant that you may not be aware of, please be sure to investigate the heart of hemp before you throw out an answer. Honestly, there are many benefits outside of the buzz, and I just have to ask, now after you have insulted the intelligence of baggers, bus drivers, carpenters, hardware store employees and I think a garbage man or two, do you feel better about yourself? Just wondering.
September 23, 2009 at 2:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Mama,
No, I don't feel better about any of it.
Pity is the word. I truly pity them.
September 23, 2009 at 2:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Well thank god we live in an age where calling the cops is a choice. I don't know how many phone calls I'd be making before I beat the life out of the punk I catch rummaging through my stuff. At best, I might call the unlucky soul an ambulance.
And as far as your pity goes, you might want to save most of it for yourself.
September 23, 2009 at 3:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
aichmpty-I am so glad to hear that. Pity is felt towards you as well.
Potheads at least have the choice to Potheads....stupidity, well, speaks for itself. Have you started your study of hemp hearts?
(absolutly NO offense aimed at potheads for the comparassion, my apologies. Just making a point.)
September 23, 2009 at 3:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
....this just in. Officials have confirmed that, yet again, aichempty couldn't have possibly missed the main point of this entire debate by any wider of a margin!
Allow me to slow things down a bit and see if I can try to understand where you're coming from.
Let's say I have a friend. He's an MMJ patient and his name is Franchesco. He's active in fighting for the reversal of the current drug policies, not because it's "cool" per say, but rather because he sees how retarded and backwards things are at the moment and knows the only way to change things is to just get out and do it. He believes, vehemently I might add, in his cause and loves to talk to people about it because he feels so strongly about the moral issues involved in this prohibition. Now one day, while at his day job, Franchesco witnesses one of his co-workers, Peter, puffing on a funny looking cigarette out back, behind the kitchen. He can't help but wonder if he's found another soldier in the marijuana ranks. He decides to find out more. Through talking to his co-worker, he has discovered that Peter uses marijuana to control debilitating migraine headaches that have plagued him since he was a boy. Drug after drug was lined up for him to sample by his doctor but nothing seemed to work. Then one day Peter, or Pete(as most of his cool new pothead friends call him), was introduced to the wonders of marijuana. Since that day, Pete has been self-medicating for his condition, illegally as it were. Franchesco, being the compassionate guy that he is and not wanting to see Pete have to go through any more headaches than he already does, proceeds to let Pete know just how easy it is to become legally invisible to local authorities in matters of marijuana.
So what you're trying to say is, Franchesco is scum because doesn't feel it necessary to report little ol' pothead Pete to the man for puffin' the magic dragon, when no one else is affected by it?
Why do you feel an obligation to involve yourself in the morality of OTHER peoples lives and then proceed to pee in their cheerios?
September 23, 2009 at 3:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
NchronicPain ( anonymous ) says...
Hey Aicher, recently, in Boulder, a couple gangster thugs went into an mmj dispensary and strong-arm (no weapons) robbed a female dispensary owner, and took all the meds and the security cameras. These thugs were quickly apprehended minutes later fleeing town; and the medicine was given back to the dispensary owner. Another incident: A friend of mine is a caregiver, and her registered patient took $800 worth of meds from her and threatened her if she did anything. She called the cops and they are pressing felonies on the guy.
If my home was broken into and my meds stolen, you better believe I will call the cops and they have no choice but to help and investigate; and in all cases I have ever heard of, the cops help the patients. Cops are on our side, Aich. It's people like you that we fight against.
September 23, 2009 at 3:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
Aich- you know in reference to your example of enhancement meds.....
tetrahydrocannabinol is such a BIG word, another reason that reference to the product may not be suited to signs.
(Ok, lets see how quickly we get a response with a phallic or cop based one sided arguement for this!)
GO aichempty!!!! Timers on!)
September 23, 2009 at 4:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
It's true aich. Talk to most cops and they'll probably sound a lot like us when it comes down to seeing the waste and futility embedded in marijuana prohibition.
But if your looking for people to agree with you, maybe you should look to people in Big Pharma? They're the ones that support, financially and heavily, the continued prohibition of our sacred medicine. What do you think happens to them when marijuana is finally legalized? They still can't figure out how to make money off of pot. Not for lack of effort though. They have been more attempts to create/bastardize/patent a pharmaceutical version of marijuana than are worth talking about. ALL of them have been tremendous, I mean huge, failures and only serve to point out that even the pharmaceutical companies see how useful marijuana is, even if they can only fail at duplicating it. They just dread the unavoidable avalanche of profit-loss at the dawn of marijuana legalization and would gladly give a buck or two to "the man" that gives false hope of abolishing it forever.
September 23, 2009 at 4:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Skifreelivelove ( anonymous ) says...
Bandmama, I feel a lot better after doing some research on these hemp hearts you are talking about. I am going to stock up on this miracle food to help me get the right nutrition I need after I get knee surgery next week. Thanks for that bandmama you go to show that we can do better than that aichemptmoy dude. By helping eachother and educating people about the good things. Not trying to tear someone down becuase of living a miserable life.. Thanks again bandmama!!
September 23, 2009 at 4:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
Skifreelivelong- You are so very welcome! I found them in my hometown health food store and besides being extremely good for you, they taste fantasic! Nice nutty flavor. Wonderful on salads, yogurt (instead of granola or the like) they also make one heck of a pancake..... the only problem is that they are quite pricey, and I usually have to have my parents send them to me or have them shipped directly from the store. My son is also experimenting with being a vegetarian. I support his choice, but seeing as he is perhaps the worlds pickiest eater, (hates fish, hates tofu ect...) finding suitable protein sources is difficult. Hhearts help to balance the diet. Excellent for those who have a loss of appetite due to other illnesses as well, as a very small serving provides many nutrients.
AH HAAAA! Another pro for medical use.... go figure....
Still waiting Aich....................
September 23, 2009 at 4:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Maybe he's busy doing a lot of research or something.........hahahahahahahaha.
I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.
September 23, 2009 at 4:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jk ( anonymous ) says...
Probably making a cocktail and smoking a cigar so he can calm down.
September 23, 2009 at 4:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
might be on the phone reporting a possibly stoned employee at the lumberyard after he came home with the wrong size piece......(of lumber) Ok, I couldn't resist either.
September 23, 2009 at 4:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Breaking News...(beepbeep beep beep beepbeepitybeep)....Attention all MMJ patients and all of those that might be suffering from some side-effects of marijuana tomorrow between 5-8pm!!!
You can get some awesome ice cream and the opportunity to make some wishes come true if you stop by Cold Stone tomorrow. Check out SP&T homepage twit blurb for details.
September 23, 2009 at 4:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
The funny thing about all of this is that you're only fooling yourselves.
Pot affects the way you think. You can't see the effects, because pot use dulls your ability to see them. That's why it's a perfect drug.
September 24, 2009 at 11:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Of coarse.....it all makes perfect sense now.....how could we have missed something this huge, for so long?.....thank god somebody saw the light and decided to tell us!!.....if we could only put down the dope long enough to reach out to the hand of common sense and drag ourselves out of our mindless misery.....
Words cannot express our gratitude for what you've done here today aichempty. Without your grand wisdom and insight, we might have just ended up like those kids on TV you see that can't seem break the gelatinous bond between the couch and their backside. How can we ever repay you?
September 24, 2009 at 12:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
OMG!!!
The hemp hearts I had on my yogurt this morning have severly distorted my thoughts......(darn that lack of THC) I guess I will no longer comment. Thanks Aichy for showing us all the light.
(Do you think anyone should tell him that simple sleep aids and stop smoking prescribed drugs do also? Last I heard, there was no warning lables concerning homocidal or suicidal thoughts on a bag of weed. Shhhh! Lets let him think he is right on everything. He seems to need the ego boost...HA!)
September 24, 2009 at 3:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
windle ( anonymous ) says...
I look for that ivory tower every time I drive up 129 to go fishing. Must be up some 'holler' yet to be discovered by us liberal yahoos. Wonder how many car crash related fatalities, suicides, and work place related deaths can be attributed to mj versus alcohol and rx' legal' drugs or not legal drugs? Self-satisfaction can also have a mind numbing effect and retard an otherwise open mind, I'm told.
September 24, 2009 at 3:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
he he he!!!!
September 24, 2009 at 3:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Has anyone ever OD'd on ego before?
September 24, 2009 at 4:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
Not yet to the best of my knowledge, but we may have the once in a lifetime chance to see it happen here in the Boat.
September 24, 2009 at 5:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
I'll bring the specially buttered popcorn! You call Guinness.
September 24, 2009 at 5:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
DEAL!!!!!
September 24, 2009 at 5:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
windle ( anonymous ) says...
Whooaa! Wait just one GD minute. Chemy might be extreme but would it not be exxxtreeeemly stupud not to view his point of view as one held by many people?? I not only watch FOX but CNN, MSNbc, listen to Bush ..oops I mean Rush, Alex Jones, Steve Quayle, BBC , CNN, Genesis Radio, etc. How else can you have an understanding of world opinion? Don't 'dis' him, man. I'm not certain he is altogether wrong. Not saying he is altogether right. Just saying everything might not be what it seems if you investigate. There is no way I'll ever trust the party line. Either one.
September 24, 2009 at 6:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
blue_spruce ( anonymous ) says...
anyone who says "I've got a good bit of experience with malingerers..." is obviously pretty old and (sadly) out of touch with mainstream society.
September 24, 2009 at 9:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
I have no problem flipping the coin over to see what's on the other side. I know that there are a lot of people out there that hold similarly ignorant views to those of aichy. When I say ignorant, I mean that they just don't know all of the facts. Not saying I do either, never have. There are very few people, if any, that fully understand every, single fact and detail revolving around the legalization debate. All that I KNOW, for sure, are the facts that have been presented to me and the conclusions I've drawn. I see billions of tax-payer dollars wrapped up in prosecuting and imprisoning people that use marijuana and, at the very least, there are hundreds of better uses for this money. Cops in L.A. will stand to watch some street crack-head light up across the intersection, but as soon as they think there might be some weed involved they go guns blazing like there's a real threat society in progress. You can't even try to tell me that marijuana is worse for somebody than some good ol' Reagan crack. At least, not seriously.
Having been raised in a family with more than one former law enforcement officer in it's ranks, I have been well versed in the debate/propaganda that supports the current marijuana prohibition. However, as you might be able to tell, I was shown a different road and the option to discover the truth of the matter for myself. I did, and the only regret that I currently harbor is not doing it sooner and not telling more people.
In conclusion, it would be far more rewarding and productive for you to walk into a four-square gospel church preaching the glories of satanism & devil worship, than it would be for you to preach about the evils of marijuana to me. There aren't many points from the negative side of the BS that I haven't heard and there are even fewer points I've heard that are based in fact/reality.
The challenge stands: Justify the waterfall of money being dumped into the prohibition of a plant.
September 24, 2009 at 11:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Popular opinions have often been debated. Here are a few that were commonly held in the past.
1. African Americans were incapable of flying combat aircraft or holding other positions in the military which required intelligence and high levels of performance. Troops were segregated by race, with minorities assigned mostly to support roles such as cooking, laundry, truck driving, etc.
2. Women were incapable of voting. African American men were granted the right to vote before any woman could vote.
3. The Earth is flat.
4. The Earth is the center of the Universe.
5. The Milky Way galaxy is the extent of the Universe.
6. Maggots are generated spontaneously from rotting meat.
7. Craters all over the Earth which were once thought to be volcanic in origin are actually impact craters produced by comets and asteroids.
Should I bother to go on?
The "opinion" that marijuana causes no harm to anyone is blind and ignorant. It's like any other intoxicating or psychoactive substance, and no different from alcohol, tobacco or any other natural or artificial pharmaceutical which requires responsible use to avoid harm to the user.
Blanket legalization for general use by the adult population would only add one more harmful substance to the existing mix. Obviously alcohol kills a lot of people. So does prescription drug abuse. So do medication errors by health care provders. So does speeding and reckless driving.
I have a friend in this area who lost his wife and kid to a head-on collision with a drunk driver when he was a very young man. He doesn't drink at all because of that experience. Put yourself in his shoes and tell me you want to add something else to an existing problem with intoxicated drivers.
(cont.)
September 25, 2009 at 7:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Read "the record" in the Pilot and see how many people are caught with marijuana following traffic stops.
One of the reasons that people who are drunk or stoned get stopped is because they forget what they're doing and run through a radar trap, or otherwise get the attention of the police.
Mental impairment from substance use is one of the reasons people get in trouble while driving, and is obviously a cause of a lot of accidents and injuries.
You cannot reasonably claim that making pot more available is going to reduce the number of people who will use it while driving. Quite the opposite, use of any substance that impairs judgement makes people more likely to use it while doing something dangerous. If everybody could be trusted to stay home and use pot responsibly, I'd have no opposition to it. It's not the responsible users who cause the problems.
The comment about my experience with malingerers is just plain ignorant. It happens to be true. The world is full of people who fake sickness and seek disability payments from the government or workmens' comp because they are either lazy or mentally ill (mostly depression) and would rather sit around and be supported than go to work. States with the most liberal policies in these areas have the most people living at the expense of other taxpayers, and also the most fraud. Not surprisingly, the same states have suffered most from businesses moving away to other states, factory shutdowns, etc. The data proves it. Your government keeps statistics on such things and the proof is in the data. States like Texas and Georgia have low rates, while California, Michigan and Connecticut have high rates for people doing exactly the same jobs in government industrial facilities (shipyards, depot repair facilities, etc.). Have you noticed that California is bankrupt? You think drug use and malingering arent some of the reasons why?
Legalization of marijuana is a tiny issue in most of the country and most of the population. Addictive use is just another way to be handicapped and drag society down to its lowest level. It's a despicable habit no different from alcohol, tobacco, cocaine, sniffing glue or abusing prescription pain killers.
Did you ever stop to think that if all the people abusing pot would stop, that would also put an end to the "war on drugs" issue? With rare exceptions, for valid medical reasons, nobody needs the stuff. So why not just say, "no."
That's easy. Because you can't. And why do you suppose that's so? Why do you need pot unless you're really sick?
You want it. It's either addictive, or you need to get high because of an inability to cope with life without it.
The problem is between your ears. That's the one you need to work on. It's the same as alcohol, or cocaine, or any other addictive illness. That's reality.
September 25, 2009 at 8:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jk ( anonymous ) says...
So keeping with your checks and balances maybe we should legalize marijuana and get rid of alcohol. I am sure domestic abuse would diminish greatly, date rape would go way down, and it would probably knockout bar fighting altogether. The police blotter would probably be different too, because people wouldn't get caught driving drunk and have their contraband found. Just a thought for the debate.
September 25, 2009 at 9:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
trump_suit ( anonymous ) says...
Perhaps one of those wrongly held popular opinions is:
Drugs should be illegal...........................
Isn't it just possible that we would make better headway in the fight against drug abuse by following the education model that has worked better than anything at keeping kids from smoking tobacco. No it's not perfect, but it is light years better than throwing a user in Jail.
Look at the experience with MADD and the reduction in DUI. Yes there are penalties in place, but the underlying substance problem remains legal.
And finally, what out our countries experience with prohibition in the 20's. What a roaring success that was. It led to Gangs, Guns and Violence in the streets. Does Al Capone ring a memory bell for you?
We are seeing the exact same problems now in the black market supply chain for these drugs.
"Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it"
September 25, 2009 at 10:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
I hate when people make me sound like a broken record, but here we go again.....
You seem to be stuck in this deadlocked doughnut spin around the wrong points. You're completely missing the argument. The argument for marijuana legalization is more about all of the OTHER uses for marijuana that our entire culture is being deprived of. The strain of marijuana used for industrial hemp, the kind that makes over 25,000 products possible, is considered a danger to our society because of it's name, not because it's a health concern. There are NO, I repeat NO, psychoactive properties in industrial hemp that would be able to affect someone's mind. Smoking it would be dumb and retarded. It is NOT the same strain as the medicinal one, nor does it share the same properties.....but it's still illegal. This, at least to me, seems completely ludicrous. This is what makes me question my government when it tells me I should, "...stay away from this plant. In fact, report this plant to your local authorities should you detect it's presence. This plant will only lead you to a bunch of other hardcore drugs that will destroy you and make you murder your family in cold-blood while giggling like an idiot."
I defy you to find any evidence that supports the anti-marijuana case made by the government the way it's depicted in films like "Reefer Madness" and "High School Confidential." Make the case. Seal the deal. Be the first one to show the all of us just how evil pot really is.
September 25, 2009 at 10:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
Once again, let me ask something. As a taxpayer and a parent.....
I want my tax dollars to keep rapists and child molestors and murderers in prison, or at least caught. I am sick and tired of MY hard earned tax dollar going to keep a stoner in jail. End of story. What exactly is so difficult to understand about that. Aichy, would you prefer to live next door to a paroled violent sex offender who may happen to notice your wife or daughter or maybe even your son or YOU, or a guy who smokes a joint to relieve pain, or increase his appetite because maybe he is on chemo, or what ever the medical reason may be? (AND for once keep in mind how many potentially dangerous side effects some prescribed meds have. ie: suicidal thoughts ect, maybe that bullet meant for his own mouth missed and goes through your window?)
I will take the stoner any day.
September 25, 2009 at 10:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
freerider ( anonymous ) says...
MMJ FYI I'm on your side with this one , Aichy is Routt county's version of Ann Coulter , Arrogant , self righteous . full of himself and can't see the forest for the tree's ....he keeps harping on stupid pot smokers yet he looks to be the fool as he wastes all his time posting ridiculous opinions about topics that he's is ignorant of .... it's like talking to a brick , good luck with that
September 25, 2009 at 11:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Maybe aich is right.... maybe we should ignore the countless homeless, under-educated, poor and under-privileged of our country in order to financially uphold marijuana prohibition.
How much good do you think we could do for these groups in our society with the close to 8 Billion dollars that could be re-directed away from the marijuana prohibition? How do you think the legalization of a material, useful in producing over 25,000 products, would affect industry and small business in America and subsequently the world? Can you imagine the countless jobs that could be created by doing this? I can assure you that workforce involved with utilizing marijuana industrially would dwarf the current drug-buster crowd that the tax-payers are keeping employed today. I think the money involved in the way things could be, after we end marijuana prohibition, would make the cost of upholding the marijuana prohibition seem laughable. In fact, we're costing ourselves vast sums by letting this go on as it has.
I challenge the voters that are reading this to do the research on the issues in their next election. Find the things you believe are under funded and write your representative with your concerns about the current waste being generated by the war on marijuana. I dare you to do it and see what happens. This is part of getting involved. Let's show our government that we'll not stand for the current injustices being perpetrated by our federal government. Let's show them that we want the money used for something else. Let's relentlessly appeal for the need of renewed industry that will benefit not only the middle class, but the nation as a whole. Let's do something as a people that will not just bring us out of our current economic fustercluckery, but put us on the road to prosperity again. Let's unscrew our nation.
September 25, 2009 at 11:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
This is a debate that's not going to be won, but it's worth revisting the original point.
We're a tourist town. What do you want outsiders to see when they get here?
Isn't it reasonable to believe that a licensed mmj user can find a dispensary from the address on the door? Who else needs to know?
There's a fine line between meeting a compassionate need for medical marijuana and promoting the stuff as a cure-all for those who suffer from, well, nothing but a life that sucks so much they need to get high to be able to stand living in their own skin.
We don't need drunks falling down on our streets anymore than we need Marijuana Molly's advertising cannabis with a neon sign. People don't spend money to come here with their families and see winos and pot heads hanging around on Lincoln Avenue.
What do they do at Whistler? Snowbird/Alta? Tahoe? Maybe we should worry about the resorts that ranked higher in the recent polls and follow their examples.
September 25, 2009 at 11:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
You're turning it into some sort of limited, close-knit community issue that just affects tourism and the opinions of some rich douchy-types.
You're just some incendiary A-hole that thinks his poo don't stink.
I hope you find out someday just how many people you interact with on a daily basis are ninja tokers.
And on a side note; there are people that come here for the pot.
September 25, 2009 at 11:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
POP QUIZ TIME!!!!!!!
Anyone out there know what one of the original ingrediants of Coca Cola was? Yup, coke. It was touted as being a good thing! Eventually the recipe was changed, for good reason.
Now, why do I point this out? It occured to me that perhaps those so strongly opposed to the legalization of pot may be under the assumption that those who are for it are all deranged druggies. Let me say for the record, no they are not.
Anyone who has spent any time around a crack,coke,meth head knows that some substances are not fit for human consumption in any way. There are differences between the two classes. Keep this in mind. Sort of like comparing a rose to a plastic piece of decoration ivy. One is natural, one is man made. One will decompose naturally, the other will be in a landfill for years.
Now, is coke a does come from the cocoa plant, (like another addicitive substance, chocolate but that is another article all together!!!) but has not been in its "natural" state for a while, usually comes with an additive or two. Certainly some can begin to understand the the basis of the arguements?
September 25, 2009 at 11:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
OMG!
a comment in direct relation to the article that isn't insulting someones intelligence or job status!!!!
My opinion? no we dont have to have a large neon sign.
and as far as a tourist town HA HA HA!!!! it is also a college town, ever walked across CMC campus and NOT caught a second hand buzz? LOL!
And I dont think we need to see either, a drunk or a pot head lounging on any corners. Both are a bit unsightly, as are pompus cock roaches on cell phones.
September 25, 2009 at noon ( permalink | suggest removal )
Jeff_Kibler ( Jeff Kibler ) says...
Cocaine is derived from the coca plant, chocolate from cacao.
September 25, 2009 at 12:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
Jeff, thanks for the correction!
(I am one of those horrible persons who dosn't care exactly where chocolate comes from, as long as I am able to get it. But I always appreciate learning! LOL!) HAGD!
September 25, 2009 at 12:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Jeff_Kibler ( Jeff Kibler ) says...
No problem. Just wanted to make sure you had the facts before you snorted some Nestle's Quick (do they still sell that stuff?).
September 25, 2009 at 12:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
LOL!
Rest assured, never sniffed anything besides the mountain air!
I dont know if they still sell it. Excellent point to ponder for the day. I prefer Ovaltine myself. Comes with vitiamins! Less guilt and allows me to enjoy the pure uncut chocolate.
September 25, 2009 at 12:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Jeff_Kibler ( Jeff Kibler ) says...
I certainly didn't want to imply that perhaps you snorted Swiss Miss. Anywho, you were totally correct about the Coca in Coca-Cola.
I read somewhere that they still use coca flavoring in Coke. WTF is coca flavoring? It's been fun. Back to work.
September 25, 2009 at 12:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
Another interesting point to ponder.
Have a nice weekend.
September 25, 2009 at 1 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
trump_suit ( anonymous ) says...
Marajuana Molly's I kind of like it but doesn' t that violate the City ordinance? Maybe they reconsider "Boom Sticks" :)
September 25, 2009 at 1:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Jeff_Kibler ( Jeff Kibler ) says...
Trump - if you started a MJ dispensary that also sold spiced tea, would you be allowed to call it "Chai Sticks?"
September 25, 2009 at 2:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
NchronicPain ( anonymous ) says...
News flash Aich!! There are dispensarys in Tahoe and Whistler!! Once again, you have shoved your own foot in your mouth.
September 25, 2009 at 3:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
I, here by, move to create a motion that recognizes screen name "aichempty" as having as much to contribute to a reasonable debate as a whole sack of hammers.
All those in favor say, "aye."
September 25, 2009 at 3:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
AYE!!!
September 25, 2009 at 3:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
Now now, that is not a very nice thing to write.....
Bandmama is shaking her finger at you!!!!
(now if you want a sack of hammers, check out the Chem dude on the 9/11 story....whew!!!!!)
Aichempty has every right to state his........opinions.
September 25, 2009 at 4:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
Although I still am waiting to hear an answer to my question as to which sort of neighbor he would prefer, the paroled rapist or the stoner dude.
September 25, 2009 at 4:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Does the stoner dude have a license to grow weed?
September 25, 2009 at 4:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
No, but he does work at a lumberyard, every now and then he forgets a hammer.
The rapist on the other hand does not discriminate, he will go for anything young or old. Every now and then eyes the neighbors sheep longingly. His best friend, who is there every night only killed one child in a drunk driving incident, but was let go for good behavior, but due to that unpleasant experience he is on an anti-depressant Efexxor, and has the occational suicidal or homocidal thought.
MMJ- thanks, you are right, I should have been more specific.
Oh yeah, the stoner on the other hand believes in karma and doing onto others..blah blah blah..darn rasta crud. Those horrible colors, the red and green and yellow really clash with some of the neighbors white picket fences.
September 25, 2009 at 5:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jk ( anonymous ) says...
Seems like there are some pretty reds, greens, and yellows being handled by mother nature out there right now?? Don't knock the colors.
September 25, 2009 at 6:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Well, the stoner that moves in next to aich should have a license, just to be on the safe side. I wouldn't put it beyond aich to drop a dime to the DEA about his neighbor he spotted with a joint in his mouth. Never can be too careful in dealing with neighbors, ya know.
September 25, 2009 at 7:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
ahhh the pretty colors............
September 25, 2009 at 7:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jk ( anonymous ) says...
there you go bandmama
September 25, 2009 at 11:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mtroach ( anonymous ) says...
Fellow posters; Keep in mind that no matter how accurate or persusave your arguements to aichey are, he choses a side and nothing you say will change that. Further even if he agrees with something in your post, once he has displayed an opposing view he will not ever change his view to suport a point that an opposing debateer posts. This forum is pure debate for him, don't take it poorly if you don't feel that you can get through to him. Maybe we do, but he would be the last one to ever say that anyone did. Aicheydebate 101.
September 26, 2009 at 6:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
roach,
Not so. I'm willing to learn.
For example, my comment was, "What do Whistler and Tahoe do?" I'm not surprised they have dispensaries. I just asked how those communities handle them when it comes to public visibility.
I'm also a firm believer that Americans are overmedicated at great cost, and that health care should be a non-profit business. My problem with MMJ is that it seems to end up in the hands of unlicensed users, and of people who want an excuse to smoke pot more than they need a substitute for things like aspirin and ibuprofen.
Bandmama, I don't want to live next door to either one. I've arranged it so that's not a possibility. Your logic is that we have to deal with something bad, so choose the least bad. Mine is to avoid the negative altogether and enjoy the benefits (such as saving money to spend on more useful or beneficial things than intoxicating weeds).
Doctors and patients are both responsible for overmedicating with expensive substances for everything from impotence to needing to pee too often. It's not necessary to take a pill for everything people have to deal with. Pot makes a lot more sense for chronic pain than some other approaches, but it's also far too easy to abuse, so what's the solution?
I'm not here to be contrary. I'm here to find the truth, and opinion doesn't count as truth. In reality, there are few absolutes in anything to do with human disease and biochemistry and the range of "normal" can be quite broad.
If MMJ was good for ADD/ADHD, should kids be allowed to go to the nurse's office and light one up before math class? Maybe that would be better for home schoolers, eh?
There are teetotalers (the term is actually "tea totalers" -- make sense?) social drinkers and drunks. There are those who drink every day and those who drink once a year. Moderate alcohol consumption has benefits for heart patients (makes blood more slippery) while over indulgence causes liver and pancreatic disease.
Pot is legal for MMJ patients now, but not for school kids. Keeping the two groups apart is the challenge, and unfortunately, it seems like a lot of MMJ patients are only too willing to introduce it to others. Who would be more likely to give it to kids than a young adult who can possess it legally? How about trading MMJ for sexual favors -- think that ever happened?
It seems that marijuana users are not that motivated to keep the idea of permitted use legal and responsible. Is that because pot makes you unable to act responsibly? It all goes back to the issue of irresponsible use leading to statutory prohibition. Is pot abuse just for losers, or is it just that losers are drawn to abuse pot?
A kid died of alcohol poisoning at a neighbor's house a while back. You can say the kid would not have died from pot, but if he or others hadn't been smoking pot, would he have od'd on alcohol? Could someone else have saved him? Was that extra puff of stupid the catalyst?
September 26, 2009 at 8:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
No, mtroach is right. Talking to you about this subject is a completely futile effort.
September 26, 2009 at 8:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
trump_suit ( anonymous ) says...
Aich, I completely fail to understand how you keep tying MMJ to children........
Almost 100% of the posters on these forums discuss keeping out children safe from these substances. We are also seeing more literature and media advertising about the dangers in you medicine cabinet..
I do not beleive that Marajuana will be any more available to children than it is now. (Do you have any recent High School experience? Those students could tell you a few things about the availability of drugs in American High Schools).
Once again you have tried to tie together two unrelated issues to try and make your point.
As to the alchohol poisoning, why is it that the substance that is cabable of killing by consumption alone is legal but the one that is completely incapable of that remains illegal????? Please leave out the actions argument, we are discussing the substance here, not the people and their activities.
September 26, 2009 at 8:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
trump_suit ( anonymous ) says...
PS Aich, Your point about the Routt County Real Estate market being driven upwards by illegal drug profits is simply insane.
Either the drug problem is larger than our economy, or you are scared of the wind. Which is it?
You show your true conservative scare tactics when you bluster out such ridiculous ideas. Scary stories won't fix this problem either. It is time to end the "war on drugs" and begin a new era of treatment and education.
September 26, 2009 at 9:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Skifreelivelove ( anonymous ) says...
Hey Aich,
I am coming up with a business plan to open a store in town that has signs which all contain pictures of cannabis leaves. This store does not involve medical marijuana but the products I will be selling have to do with legalization. The store will be named in tribute to you since you gave me the idea. But just to let you know the signs have big old cannabis leaves on them which you can see from a mile away. I hope you are proud that a small business is using cannabis leaves for all the advertising of legal products. Thanks Aich
September 26, 2009 at 10:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Skifree...can I come work there? I am Highly trained, Highly qualified and Highly motivated.
September 26, 2009 at 11:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
wow. I have never assumed that legal mj dispensary should be steered toward children. stupid point.
you are so very lucky that you dont ever have to choose the lessor of two evils, for the rest of us who choose to live among other humas, well...we have to to choose or deal with it. perhaps if you would deal with people face to face instead of on line you would have a better understanding of the real world.
I do have to give you some "brownie" points though... we as Americans are way over medicated. Again why some choose a more natural or holistic approach. so in short you spout verbal feces of a subject that you try to assume that you know about. You dont.
As far as the unfortunate death of the youngster...most will choose beer. Not a point in this chat.
And, i have to assume that you are not a parent, or if you are I feel so sorry for the overbearing arrogant lifestyle you choose for your kids, (are they in therapy?) by making MJ seem not so off limits you in short take some of the fun and taboo out of it. Remember NoDoz anyone....in high school alot of dumb butts thought that was cool. At any rate, mraoch is correct. Aichy isn't amongst the realistic,I wonder if the powder blue leisure suit id ready for the cocktail saturated Christmas party???
September 26, 2009 at 5:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
oh yeah.... the colors are even better today!
only a few more weekends...I am going to go finish enjoying mine.
September 26, 2009 at 5:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
And you all continue to dodge the issue.
It seems that you assume humans have a need to abuse intoxicating substances as part of daily life. It's just not so.
You are all lucky to be able to make a living (or have one handed to you) that is compatible with marijuana abuse or licensed medical use. My question to you is whether you are providing the best opportunities for your families along the way. Sobriety, ambition and reliability are enviable traits in bread winners. If you are giving your spouses and kids the best you can, then nobody has a reason to complain. It's just that when we look at the broad population and see heads of families who are substance abusers (including alcohol and tobacco -- shoot, might as well include fattening food too), we usually see members of their families who have to compensate in some way.
McKenzie Phillips is in the news as a victim of incest. We know about her drug problems going back to her teenage years. I have known personally seven different women who grew up in substance abusing families who were molested by their father, step father, or siblings. Maybe the substance abuse was just another bad behavior that goes along with a lack of respect for societal boundaries and mores, but when you are prone to such acts, using anything that lowers your inhibitions and having a victim around who either can't complain, or can be kept silent through intimidation, sets up a perfect scenario for sexual abuse to go along with the substance abuse.
There are very few people with so-called "problems" who only have one problem. There are obviously some innocent victims who are harmed by others, but one "bad" behavior tends to go along with others among the perpetrators.
People who are responsible for hiring employees for positions of trust avoid those with drug and alcohol problems. You are going to limit your income and harm your job security by being known as a substance user. The fact you're living in a town that accepts open drug abuse as a way of life may be fine for now, but things can change. All it's going to take is a few law-abiding, ambitious immigrants from southwest Asia to come in and buy up homes and businesses as they become available, and jobs for pot users and alcohol and drug abusers will disappear.
Our societal standards have slipped over the past 30-40 years and the economic crash of last year is a direct result. Allowing people to be free and easy in the belief they will act responsibly turned out to be a bad idea. The fact there were no consequences for many years led to extreme consequences in the end.
It will be the same way, in the end, for irresponsible drug use. History proves it. People who have been around here for 20-30 years already know how it turned out for the ones who couldn't handle it. They're not here anymore.
September 27, 2009 at 9:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Once again, simply ridiculous.
The points you attempt to make in your comments seem to revolve around a central, however incorrect, concept that involves marijuana being the worst evil in society today. Your argument seems to be, "of all the bad things in America, including crack, booze abuse, drunks hitting/killing people with their cars, child molestation and tobacco induced cancer, none of them compare to the evils of this devil's lettuce. In fact, using this substance will make you do all the other things and worse. And there is no substance use, just abuse." Somewhere in your propaganda washed brain, a connection has been drawn between cannabis and evil. Therefore, all cannabis users are abusing it, they are evil and they will murder your wife and kids the first chance they get.
For those of you out there that have seen the "documentaries" concerning the "evils of weed," you already know how ridiculous these films, and the points/facts they attempt to claim as true, truly are. Claims such as, "supporting weed means supporting the COMMIES," "you will become inseparable from your couch and subsequently useless to society," "prolonged usage of this weed will lead to nothing short of insanity," and my most recent favorite, "the money all of you losers spend on your weed goes straight to funding terrorism."......really?, terrorism. I sure would love to see the data and facts these geniuses used to come up with this crap. Is this country honestly going in the direction of classifying it's citizens as terrorism supporters, or even terrorists themselves? Really?!?!?! As someone who's been medicating for some time now, I can assure you that there are very few, if any, people out there that are getting drugs from terrorists. The idea that the Taliban or Al Qaeda is bringing pot into the US in order to support it's efforts against us, is 100% BS. Your government will tell you whatever they see fit in order to keep in line. Just look at aich.
September 27, 2009 at 10:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
I challenge you aich. I challenge you to take an hour and a half out of your busy pothead bashing day to watch a movie. It' a Showtime production called, "In Pot We Trust" and it documents the lives of some people who would, otherwise, be useless to society, and even their own families, if they did not have marijuana to quench the symptoms of their respective illnesses. All you have to do is Google it. IF you have the intestinal fortitude to stomach watching this documentary, I commend you. If you refuse to take the time to watch this, you are just another ignorant sheep. You obviously possess very little factual knowledge on the subject and in attempting to debate with people that do possess the facts, it makes you sound like one of those people that just plugs their ears, close their eyes and start blabbing, "bla, bla, bla....I can't hear you!!! Lalalalalala!!!"
Ironically, the solution to the marijuana "problem" in our society will not be found or helped by the people that refuse to acknowledge the validity of the legalization stance. Simply choosing to ignore the other side of the argument only serves to widen the gap between people that get it and those that don't.
September 27, 2009 at 10:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
mmj,
Your movie is just more propaganda for the abuse of cannabis.
I've said over and over that people who have a valid medical need for it should have it.
My problem is the number of people who seem so anxious to qualify for the medical stay-out-of-jail free card.
The social cost and consequences of marijuana abuse do not justify its legalization for other than medical purposes. The fact that marijuana is supposedly "not as bad" as other plagues such as alcohol does not justify legalization.
Whatever problem you have when you light up is still going to be there after the stuff leaves your system.
Do you ever forget to take your marijuana medicine? Are there times when you don't take it because you don't need it? Or, are you always looking forward to your next dose?
Habitual use of intoxicating substances has been a plague on our society forever. Drunkenness has destroyed lives and families for thousands of years.
The move to legalization is a veil that chronic abusers want to throw over the underlying problems in their own heads. They want to normalize an anti-social behavior. The only rational justification is, "Everybody does it."
Human beings are predators, and there will always be some who prey on others. We live in a fairly safe and isolated society here in the mountains, but it's quite different in other places. There are way more people who don't need the extra problems than there are those who might benefit.
A clear mind is the greatest asset anyone can bring to the workplace or to a relationship. Self-sufficiency, self-support and obedience to the laws that govern us are civic responsibilities. If 95% of the population could do those things while legally using pot, nobody would oppose it. The fact is that pot abuse goes along with crime, absenteism, poverty and underemployment. It doesn't raise anybody up, and helps to drag people down, just like alcohol and coke and all the others.
I have learned the hard way that substance abusers, legal and illegal, are not people I want to be around, and I sure don't want to do business with them. Good help is hard to find around here, and apparently, smoking pot doesn't make anybody do a better job or itch to get there on time or even show up when promised. Maybe if I smoked pot too, I wouldn't care. Is that what you're trying to tell me?
September 28, 2009 at 8:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
I should have listened to the people that tried to warn me. I think instead of continuing this any further, I'm going to go beat my head into a wall because that will obviously produce more results than talking to you aich. You are a complete waste of time.
September 28, 2009 at 8:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
Oh my....
Aichy-so by your arguement, anyone who drinks, smokes, takes a puff or uses any prescription med for whatever purpose automatically is a pervert and doesn't take care of the family? WOW.
FYI- I work, always have. Sometimes more than one job.
My husband, Works-currently three jobs.
My child happens to have an IQ I guarantee much higher than yours. And yes, have excellent grades. We have a super relationship with him, and yes we do know where is is at most times, with the exceptions of early out days at school when he occationally goes to Mcdonalds with his friends for lunch (There have been a time or two that he neglected to text or phone us and tell us....that horrible child.)
At no time has he ever been abused in any way shape or form.
His father and I are getting ready to celebrate 24 years together, and yes this is a first marriage for both of us, and neither has had any other children/affairs.
Please...PLEASE explain how you can so easily, Blatantly and without due reason lump every person in such a stupid little bubble?
BTW-you didn't address the question, are you a parent?
September 28, 2009 at noon ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
I guess the line between stoner and patient is pretty fuzzy to him.
September 28, 2009 at 12:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
Looks that way.
It is a shame really.
I agree that no, we shouldn't have a 10 foot neon MJ sign, and there is other terminology that can be used besides "The Reefer Store"....but still.
I wonder if Aichy realizes how many people who use medications, prescribed or natural in the course of a day, just to be able to make through the day? So many could be sitting at home collecting welfare and not doing anything besides rating Jerry Springer episodes. I think some fail to recognize the difference between pain management and addiction. Although a very fine line sometimes, it can make all the difference in the world to some. Including making/helping them be productive members of society, not always the loosers he feels many are/would be.
I wonder how he feels about the major meds that MS patients use? Yes, they can effect how they think as can the pain they are taking the meds for. Which would be better I wonder, the original pain, or side effects of meds that may allow them to finish the day at work?
Has anyone herd of "cluster headaches"? A very real affliction for some. including someone very dear to me. They are believed to be caused in part to blood vessel abnormalities in the brain, causing pain beyond imagination. This person suffered for years, took pain med after pain med, anti-depressants, Lithium for petes sake, no help, no relief. Finally had a dr who recomended methadone as an additional treatment to hypertensive drugs. This person wouldn't do it, oh my...HERION ADDICTS used that drug and what would his pharmacist think????? After about a year, the pain got so bad that he tried it, with a constant watchful eye of a physician who was willing to go out on a limb, for the first time in 30 years this person can function. And no longer feels as if he is going crazy. No, it wasn't MJ, but an unconvential treatment all the same. that worked for this patient. This patient who takes methadone daily, is he an evil detrement to society? No way. He raised three kids and is working on his 9th grandchild. Worked everyday of his life and owns his home and debt free. He just happens to take a drug that many feel is "bad" Oh darn.
A very fine line between addiction and management.
Does Aichy have a point with his rants of addicts? In some ways yes. But he would do himself a favor to open his heart and not be so judgemental of people who dont live as he does and are trying to do the best they can.
September 28, 2009 at 3:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
Gosh dang it.....didn't spell check, swear I am not under the influence of anything Aichy.........HA!
September 28, 2009 at 3:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Bandmama,
Obviously, you are a person who cannot figure out the difference between a user and an abuser.
Obviously, you are a person who didn't read the part where I said a valid medical need should be filled.
Yes, I'm a parent. Got two in college.
Your little story is very enlightening, but it hinges on the fact that a physician prescribed pain medication for someone who needed it. I fail to see how that has any relationship whatsoever to drug-seeking behavior by otherwise healthy people.
How about getting your kid to explain it for me in writing. I'm sure we'd all like to see a genius at work.
September 29, 2009 at 10:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Aich, I know you probably can't fit this under your column of "first time someone told me that," but you're a real jerk.
September 29, 2009 at 10:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
mmj,
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like bananas. It's all a matter of perception.
Would it bother you very much to know that I don't care what you think?
September 29, 2009 at 11:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
oh my.....
Aich- first of all, yes I am fully aware of the difference between a user and an abuser.
Next..... I am glad you appreciated my little "story" I hope you enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed your little tale of the seven molested women.
Next....I am so glad you are a parent. I imagine that you are having a blast finding out what illegal drugs are on the campus of your childs choice.
Next... If you have NO issue with a prescribed substance, why the heck are you so adamently opposed to the little store mentioned so long ago in the article?
Next.... I was using my child as an example to the fact that as teenagers, his dad and I were stupid teenagers, but we did go on to have productive lives and are raising a child that yes, any parent would be proud of.
Next... as far as a genius, LOL! You are so apt at showing the back side of one, I dont think we need another.
Next....in answer to one of your rambling questions, no I am not an MJ user. I only use part of the plant for MY personnal treatment of a disorder, the hemp hearts. (which by the way, ever check out the benefits?)
Next......I am sure that you realize that there is not a dr in Steamboat that would hand an underage child wearing a tie dyed shirt a script for pot, right? And I am pretty darn sure that the fine young men running the place know that they are being watched as closely as a steak by a starving dog. I imagine that in a town such as this that they will be monitored very well.
Now... You do realize that when one is so adamently against any substance that may hinge on the outside of routine practices, it makes it so much harder for those who may benefit to obtain it. A closed minded one sided view is not the way of progress. Sometimes you have to explore and research something to find all the benefits as well as the nasty little side effects.
And no, I am not suggeting that you smoke a little weed, would be a complete waste of the weed. I do agree with you that there are lazy people in all walks of life, and yes many do "use" or "abuse" a substance. There are also just as many folks who work their little behinds off to make ends meet. It isn't wise to group humans into one little nutshell or to generalize people. you do sound like a well learned person. I hope you realize how lucky you are that you have had opportunites that it seems your fellow Steamboat residents have not. As most in your view are all pot smoking hippies.
September 29, 2009 at 2:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Hey, Mama,
Yes, I am fully aware of substance abuse on campuses.
I'm pretty much aware of everything you wrote.
I have had NO opportunity that my fellow residents did not have. I only spent 25 or so years of my life working my way up as a result of having taken the opportunities. It was a lot of hard work.
My whole point in this thread was that marijuana has negative connotations to many people who come here with their families, and Steamboat is a family ski resort. That's why we rate so poorly on nightlife. Kids ski free, right?
We don't need a store visibly engaged in selling pot on Lincoln Avenue to offend those who oppose its use on any grounds that may be important to them. One would presume that any person authorized to purchase pot from a provider who is registered with the state to provide pot to a specific mmj licensee would be able to find them without a neon sign in the shape of a cannabis leaf on the front door. That's all.
I've been around pot smokers since I was in college. My roomate smoked pot. The fact that he flunked out twice before being told "don't come back" and finally got his bachelor's degree from an "easy" commuter school seven years after I got mine (the same month I got my MS as a matter of fact) from the top school in the country for my major should tell you something. He had better SAT scores and better grades than I had in high school. He discovered pot in college and there . . he . . . . went . . . . .
I was around pot smokers in the Navy. I helped kick a few of them out. I peed in a lot of cups to prove I was not using the stuff.
I was subject to random drug testing for 15 years before taking a job where the work was not at as high a level of classification.
Don't think I don't know what's going on with pot smokers. I've had to deal with it around here for years. I knew how to recognize it because of the ones I was around in the Navy. It ain't that hard.
I'm no more against pot for valid medical use than I am against vicodin or aspirin for valid medical use. I just hate to see people wasting their lives and using pot to cover up their own reality. Same with booze. It's a waste of a life, and it's sad.
September 29, 2009 at 3:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
Aich-
Many of of have worked hard. What jobs we have is not always due to drug use, lack of funds for college or maybe lack of encouragement by the adults in our lives?
My hubby worked his way up on the ladder and is now GM for one of the worlds largest companies, but never went to college, no money and no guidance as a youngster, hard work.
And yes, MJ does have a bad connotation. Beer and cigarettes are also bad, and bad for you yet there are more liquer stores in this town than churches. Seems to be a double standard.
As far as the night life, when there are no stores open late at night and many many bars....why would children be a turning point in the rating of the night life? As an adult and parent, sorry, night life is for adults, not children. There are ample activities for the kiddies in the day time.
As far as experience...uh, my on line name? BANDmama... when married to a working musician for so many years, and working in many College towns, yeah you get to know the signs. Also...for eleven years I was the person waiting for the cup you peed in. State certified. And yes, due to that, I also filled many a cup also.
People who waste thier lives smoking or whatever ususally have reasons for wanting an escape. It isn't usually the drugs themselves, it is most likely the reason that they started using in the first place.
Whatever, as far as the signs, I am still in favor of "Boom Sticks"
What do you feel would be appropriate?
September 29, 2009 at 5:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
HA! Marijuana just had a nice little spot on the Today show. Apparently, this whole "jacked up economy/country/government" thing is really getting some people down. Good thing they something to go to besides pharmas and hooch. They didn't even bring anyone on the show that had any big issues with marijuana. It's about time marijuana gets some positive light shed on it.
September 30, 2009 at 8:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Bandmama,
How about an address on a door and a buzzer to push for admittance? How about business by appointment only since the hours are limited anyway.
In business terms, a storefront is not economically viable anyway. You'd have to sell a lot of pot at a high markup to pay the rent. More likely, it's a place and a premise for traffickers and users to meet and a reason why someone in a vehicle would be in possession of marijuana ("uh, oh yeah, I just came from/am on my way to the dispensary.")
I'll grant you this, however. I wouldn't want people coming to my home for the stuff, so some other place to hand it out makes sense. Why advertise the fact you've got a large quantity of marijuana in your home and invite break-ins?
I'm sorta surprised that one of our prominent local attorneys hasn't volunteered space in his law offices since he seems to know most of the marijuana users in town anyway.
September 30, 2009 at 9:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cheesehead ( anonymous ) says...
If you think medical MJ is alright but are against the way its distributed, the best solution would be to legalize it on a national level and treat it like all other medications.
My grandpa had a word for people who looked down on how others make an honest days pay(baggers, trash collectors etc....) He called them A%&holes.
September 30, 2009 at 10:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Yeah?
My grandpa (a city bus operator with a sixth-grade education) used to drive me through the nice neighborhoods with the nice houses and nice cars and say, "You're going to go to college when you grow up so you can live in a neighborhood like this one, instead of ours." He worked 5 nights a week (extra pay for working until midnight) and scored a final working wage of $5.00 per hour before he retired. He was only shot at a couple of times, and luckily, was never injured. He knew where he fit in, and why, and understood that he was trapped in poverty by his lack of education; but he never did anything to improve his education despite many years of opportunities for adult education sitting right there in front of him. He was satisfied with, "I can't," when it really meant, "It's too hard." It was easier to come in after midnight, sleep until 10, listen to the ball game on the radio and then leave for work at 2 PM for over 25 years.
My other grandpa was a fireman on the railroad when that involved shoveling coal. That job was an improvement when he moved up from share cropper. He eventually became an engineer, but retired rather than seek treatment for alcoholism. It was years after he died of cigarette smoking before it finally dawned on me why he was never allowed to take me for a ride in his car - he was drunk, of course. Stayed that way most of the time. I thought it was his cologne I always smelled when we went to visit him.
I don't look down on the way anybody make a living. I feel sorry for people who could do better for themselves if they were willing to sober up and work harder.
I have made my living with a shovel and a hammer and a trowel, and by washing dishes. I didn't find anything wrong with any of those jobs except the low pay at the end of the week. I know how easy it is to do better if you care enough to try. Doing a good job for the guy who writes the paychecks seems to be the magic solution. Oops . . . did I write that? It's supposed to be a secret, I think.
Or maybe it's just a secret around here, eh?
September 30, 2009 at 10:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cheesehead ( anonymous ) says...
Someone out there makes more money than you.... should they feel sorry and look down on you? Should they apply your logic and assume you're a person of no value?
Just because someone doesn't make what you consider an acceptable amount of money does not mean they don't have a work ethic or won't do a good job for the guy writing the paychecks.
September 30, 2009 at 12:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
I agree cheesy, up to a point.
There are a lot of people around who don't look down on you for what you do or how much you make, but they also don't care about the trials and troubles that less fortunate people have to deal with. All I can say to them is I hope they are prepared for a day when they may fall on hard times, because it can happen to anyone.
Millions lost their retirement savings and security, and some of them lost their homes as a result. What about Bernie Madeoff's victims?
It's possible to be very happy on very little money if you arrange your life properly. It's also possible to create a living hell for your spouse and kids. The difference is whether you have thought out what can go wrong, and whether you can survive if something does.
Most people are only limited by their own lack of willingness to advance. That's fine, but then they shouldn't complain about it when they are left behind financially. The world can pass you by without honking before you know it. At least most of us around here don't have to worry about floods. Be glad you're not a dishwasher living in an apartment in American Samoa this morning.
I know a college kid whose girlfriend broke up with him over the weekend because he told her he is switching from pre-med to education and he's going to be a football coach. She's going to be a doctor. Both of them are 18 and haven't completed the first semester of school yet. The difference is that she comes from a working-class family while his family is upper middle class. He thought they'd be okay because she will make enough money for him to be a coach and do what he wants instead of what pays well.
This is real life. Doesn't get more real. Attitudes and expectations mean something to people who've had to struggle to have a decent life. She wants a man who can support her without struggling, and unfortunately, that's what he wants too . . .
September 30, 2009 at 1:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cheesehead ( anonymous ) says...
I have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
September 30, 2009 at 3:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Me either. It was a cut and paste from a parent magazine website.
September 30, 2009 at 3:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
Aich- LOL! About the lawyer....
As far as a buzzer , good point, but you do bring up something to think about, the "handouts" after the script is filled. So, as ususal
I have a solution. Why not tattoo the patient on the forehead with a bright neon paint that lasts for up to 8 hours stating:
"Just Filled My Script, feel free to look in my pockets..."
Just an idea.............
Appointments are also a good idea, but seeing as how most of the town runs on "SteamBoat Time" I dont think it would work well. You know?
As far as your college kid friend, can you really blame the girl? Anyone?
"Oh Gee Honey, I have decided that you can work your butt off, and support me. I just want to have fun and enjoy life"
"But Dear, when you asked me to marry you, you were going to work as hard as me and we were going to share the burden!"
"But Honey! Come on! you come from nothing and will be able to deal with nothing so much more than I!"
yeah, I bet that went over really well!
September 30, 2009 at 5:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Mama,
I was not sympathizing with the college "friend." I was giving an example of how a kid who doesn't know about doing without things deals with life, and how a kid who has had to hear "we can't afford it" all her life wants something better.
I think you're missing the point that a licensed dispensary has to be tied to specific patients. Do you expect somebody with a MMJ license to stroll in and windowshop before making a selection? I don't think that's how it's supposed to work.
What about the MMJ patient who pays for his medicine, lights up outside in the VW Micro Bus before driving away, and gets into an accident while DWAI. Even though the feds may not be prosecuting licensed users, that doesn't mean that the dispensary operator can't be sued for selling a controlled substance which contributed to an accident and resulted in injuries. And, which insurance companies do you suppose are going to cover a dispensary operator for dealing in a substance that's illegal under federal law.
A single lawsuit against a dispensary operator will settle the question for good. It's obvious that people are not thinking this issue through from a legal standpoint and considering the risks associated with product liability. Blue Cross/Blue Shield regularly attempts to recover the costs of providing care for accident victims, and a MMJ dispensary operator would be a prime target.
As long as the Controlled Substances Act remains in force and marijuana is a listed substance, anyone injured by a MMJ patient has a cause of action against the user and the supplier. Civil court is a plague on the medical profession already, so there's no reason to expect that it won't be a plague on medical marijuana too.
This is just one of the reasons why the States that attempt to thwart federal law will not succeed in the long run. Irresponsible users will ruin it for everybody else, and that's why the stuff is illegal in the first place. Some people cannot use pot responsibly, so everyone has to do without it, just like all the other controlled drugs which are subject to abuse.
October 1, 2009 at 8:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
trump_suit ( anonymous ) says...
Very simple solution Repeal the failed Controlled substances act and begin to treat the problem of drug abuse as the medical problem that it is.
October 1, 2009 at 9:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
NchronicPain ( anonymous ) says...
Aich, again, you are spouting off with no real basis at all to your thoughts.....
When an mmj patient purchases meds from a dispensary, they first sign a form stating that the dispensary is not reponsible if the patient is irresponsible with the meds purchased. When DUI laws stiffened in the 80's and bartenders were held responsible, if was because the tender knowingly continued to allow a person to get obliterated and dance off to their car and drive home. At a dispensary, it is not legal to allow the patients to medicate on site. They are meant to go home and responsibly use their medicine. At a pharmacy, there are warning labels on the packaging, the actual bottle and the form you fill out when you fill your first "miracle-script." and all these warnings clearly takes all burden off the pharmacy (aka Chemical Dispensary) if the person goes nuts with their pill-poppin' frenzy. So, keep racking your brain to think of ways that the mmj community will fail, but if you haven't noticed, were are almost a decade into this in Colorado and even longer on the West Coast. In California, being that nearly 1,000,000 people are registered patients now in Cali, these outlandish fantasys of yours are exactly that... Phantasys!!
October 1, 2009 at 9:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Chronie,
A pharmacy is legally entitled to dispense medications in accordance with federal law.
A medicial marijuana dispensary is not.
There is no way that a person can sign away their right to compensation for damage resulting from criminal activity. This point is codified in federal law. If an innocent party is harmed as a result of use or distribution of an illegal substance, or illegal use or distribtuion of a legal substance, the victim has a right to seek compensation for it from everyone involved in the process. So, those running a dispensary are at risk, and most insurance companies specifically state in their policies that liability resulting from criminal activity is not covered.
It's called racketeering under federal law. Look it up.
October 1, 2009 at 12:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
So, following along the same path of "logic" here, gun shop owners are to be treated as accomplices to murders committed with a firearm?
I've said it once, and I'll probably end up saying it a thousand more times but, you're ridiculous. In fact, I think the record of comments here shows that you are the most deserving of ridicule.
October 1, 2009 at 1:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
NchronicPain ( anonymous ) says...
Aich, you are completely wrong. I did not say that someone was signing away their right to compensation for damage resulting from criminal activity (<<<whatever the F#%k that means.....) .....I said the patient assumes all the responsibility personally. It is not the dispensary's fault or repsonsibility. Just like is is not the gun shop owner's resopnsibility when someone shoots someone else....thanks mmj). And the Federal Government, as you know, is not trying to supercede State Law. It's a waste of Federal Govt's time and crooked money. Hence the reason that these disclaimers, that are signed at a dispensary, DO hold up in the court of law.
Maybe, not if you were the judge, but if you were a judge, it seems that your community would resemble a Nazi Concentration Camp.....where if the people under performed, made mistakes, even had the wrong color of skin, or maybe smelled funny, or were flawed in any way.... Then you'd drop the hammer. Pretty soon, in Aichemptyville, everyone's in jail and Captain Aich-o-knowledgable, the town's judge, law enforcer, mayor and dictator, owns everything, handles everything and everything is just perfect. HA! ya right
October 1, 2009 at 2:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
It's not the same logic at all.
It's legal to sell guns to authorized buyers under federal law.
If a gun shop owner sells to someone without getting a background check, then yeah, he's civilly liable for damage caused by the gun.
In order to have the protections of the law, you have to obey the law. Dancing around in a gray area is asking for trouble, and this is just one example of why the state medical marijuana laws are void under federal law.
October 1, 2009 at 2:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
Aich-I wan't implying that you were sympathizing. In fact if you carefully read between the lines, I dont blame the gal at all. Smart woman.
I honestly have never been given a script for weed, thus have never had one filled so no I really dont know how one would windowshop for weed. Nor do I care.
As far as the VW bus comment, again you are stereotyping, not a nice thing to do for one and I am pretty sure that there are also laws about lighting one up behind the wheel, medical need or not. Sort of trumps the liability of the dispensary, I would think. Dont know for a fact and honestly dont want to debate the issue with you.
Something to think about though, if one is prescribed say...oh....Percocets, and they take say maybe three times the dose and gets into a car and has an accident, I dont think that the pharmacy would be held responsible, maybe the dumb*ss who took the extra meds and possibly the doctor. Anyone have any recollection of any pharmacy being held responsible for the patient who didn't follow directions? Curious.
(Hey "Windowshop for Weed" Name for the little store?????)
October 1, 2009 at 2:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Mama,
You are correct. If the pharmacy acted in accordance with the law and the required warnings, they would not be liable.
The problem with a marijuana dispensary is that such a thing is not legal anywhere under federal law. It's in a gray area, as I said. For that matter, the whole State of Colorado is in a gray area with pot, and permitting its use under state law is in direct conflict with federal law.
For example, the State cannot issue a license to fly an airplane. If the State did such a thing, it would not be valid on the National Airway System and anyone attempting to operate an airplane under a State license would be liable to federal prosecution. A state-issued marijuana license is no different in principle. In fact, people using MMJ in a state that doesn't license it are breaking the law AND subject to federal prosecution even under President Obama's executive order. Try taking your MMJ through customs and see what happens.
I'm not against compassionate use of the stuff, but people are fooling themselves to think they can't get into trouble. They can. People who operate a dispensary are risking their personal assets to sell an unlawful substance to unlawful users. If harm to a third party occurs as a result, that third party has a great case in federal civil court.
We had a guy suffocate himself in a rental unit without a smoke detector because he passed out from intoxication. If the same thing happened to a MMJ patient, the person who supplied the pot would be equally liable with the owner of the unregistered and not-up-to-code rental unit. That's how the law works, and people can go broke very quickly fighting a lawsuit even when they are 100% in the right. If the guy who suffocated had been a minor who passed out from alcohol, the person who supplied the alcohol would be in the same situation.
I'm sure our chronically pained poster will come back and call me an idiot, but that doesn't change the truth. Growing your own MMJ is one thing, but growing it for somebody else opens up a big can of worms, with lots of potential consequences. Drug companies have the same liabilities, but they also have insurance because their business is legal.
October 1, 2009 at 3:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
Aich-
Very well spoken, and very valid points....all I can say is that aren't you glad this isn't your venture?
And lets face it, at this point if people need/want it they are going to get it anyway.
This is a battle that has been around for a very long time and will be here for some time to come. There is no easy answer.
Although think of the tax revenues...... if made legal.
October 1, 2009 at 4:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
bandmama, you're right. The revenues created from legalization would be more than enough to help everyone out a little bit. Maybe even aich. And aich, you're right too. I am going to get back on here and call you an idiot(actually the original term was ridiculous). So, congratulations for being so right about something.
You seem to be under the impression that you might be able to persuade someone to take the stance of righteousness and/or justice on this issue by assailing the comment board with all this ribble-rabble about big bad federal law and stoned drivers running over poor, little innocent children dressed in swaddling clothes.
The fact of the matter is that you are not on the side of the majority and you have very ignorant, or non-factual, opinions and/or beliefs that get you no-where in this "debate" over the rights and wrongs of pot. In fact, there aren't a whole lot of people out there that can piece together a reasonable argument for continuing the current marijuana prohibition. So, don't feel bad.
My suggestion would be to stop wasting your time looking up, concocting or rehearsing all these silly little stories and possible legal implications and all of the other BS you've posted on here. I recommend you take a vacation to somewhere warm. Jamaica maybe. Get a chance to enjoy the local culture, meet the people. Hell, might even learn something about being a decent human being down there. Who knows?
October 1, 2009 at 7:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mtroach ( anonymous ) says...
Achy, I would be interested in how your faith shapes how you feel about substance abuse. I was a Deadhead during my time in college, and went to a Methdist university that required study of the bible, and witnessed similar patternes between the stoned Deadheads that thought Jerry was God and the smalltown brainwashed Christians that knew very little about the bible, or who the histroical Jesus was, but fully belived anything that you told them came from the Bible. Do you think that Jesus could have been a substance user, and that his diciples all tripped with him on somehitng he found in the desert during his self imposed exile?( when he dropped out of semanary school to wander in the desert and "find himself") Maybe his substsance use was the catalyst for his anti-governent/priest rebellious attitudes, and ultimatly led him to have a less than average concern about the threat the jewish leaders had for his life. He did hang out/minister to prostitutes and other low lifes of that age. Refernces to his use of MJ or other substances could have easily been removed during the rewrite of the Bible in the Middle Ages to "correct" the testement of his divinity. Comments?
October 2, 2009 at 7:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Whoa, whoa, whoa. First of all, you are very imaginative. I was born, raised and trained in the church. The end-game that both of my parents hoped, and hope, for is/was that I go into the ministry and work tirelessly towards the goal of reaching souls for jesus and his dad. I was all about it all the way up into my early 20's. I was provided the opportunity a while back to watch a film, talked about above, called Zietgiest. It's a very interesting film that goes into the specifics about the historical data behind the foundational institutions in our country and how those institutions affect the daily life of people that subject themselves to those systems. This film is what ultimately made me question the religion that has been rammed down peoples throats for centuries. My conclusion, after seeing the film and comparing it to what my own experiences have shown me, is that most of what has been told to us throughout Sunday school and sermons is nothing more than a big fancy story. That's it.
This, at least to me, negates the "fact" that jesus/god could have been a pothead. There is not a single piece of evidence that has ever been produced that has ever proven the existence of god/heaven/hell and all the other great things they talk about in the bible. Most, in Christianity, would say that this is where "faith" comes in and takes over. They say that faith overcomes all of the facts and details to provide them with comfort. Well, faith is all fine and good, but faith does not prove any points either. Faith is merely the stubborn belief in something that isn't tangible or provable.
Anywho....the long and short of it is that IF jesus ever existed, sure he might have been a pothead. But what good does that do us now?
October 2, 2009 at 8:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Roach,
Well, it's interesting that you think a Methodist university would have anything to do with Christianity. I was raised in the Methodist church, and find that it's pretty much what its founders were like -- filled with doubt about whether anything to do with Christianity is actually real. You probably remember that John Wesley was one of several Anglican ministers who was so consumed with fear of death during a storm on their crossing of the Atlantic by ship that they all questioned their own faith in a Divine being when it was over.
I don't know whether Jesus used intoxicants. I don't know if he was married and had kids. I don't care. My personal opinion is that the Dark Ages were brought on by His second coming and that we in the present day are living during the time of tribulation, waiting for Armageddon. The fact that all of the literate people (who were priests, monks and nuns) seemed to disappear from Europe around the beginning of the Dark Ages, while nothing similar happened in the Far East and Muslim nations, indicates to me that this is a plausible theory.
Here's the real issue. Does drug use glorify God, or does it take away from the advancement of his Kingdom? Does it help God's children, or hurt them?
According to Jesus (as told in the New Testament), love is the answer. Love does no harm. According to the Apostle Paul, it's not what you do, but what's in your heart when you do it, that differentiates sin from a righteous act.
It appears to me that people consumed with drug abuse pursue it like a religion. Some who recover using religion show the same addictive tendencies to their new-found cult.
For the most part, modern Christian denominations fall back to the Jewish model of attempting to obtain salvation by obeying a set of rules rather than by faith. To me, faith is not what I choose to believe, but is something that chose me. Sometimes going after a belief is not as good an idea as letting in what seems to be true in your own heart, and trusting God that it's right.
So, if something in your life feels like a burden, there's a reason why. If you think that marijuana being illegal is a burden, maybe the answer is to figure out why you feel that way. If smoking pot is a Godly thing for you, then I'd say you should be able to do so without worrying about it, and nothing bad will happen to you as a result. If it causes you concern, then it's not the law against it that's the problem. It's the way you're using it in spite of the law. A good thing (in the spiritual sense) should never feel bad, should it?
October 2, 2009 at 9:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Wow! That explains a lot. You're a completely brainwashed byproduct of the system. You should have been given some sort of award for the level of BS you've accepted and absorbed.
October 2, 2009 at 9:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
You're probably one of those bible-beater types that believes in our military presence in the middle east based solely on the "fact" that we somehow have this moral, righteous and/or spiritual obligation to eliminate this "Muslim evil" from the face of the earth, huh?
October 2, 2009 at 9:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
mmj,
I've been in a church twice since 1990 that I can remember. Both times it was for a wedding (someone else's).
Try again. You got everything completely wrong.
So, you're one of them athiests, eh? That explains a lot. Much better to smoke pot than pray to be healed, right?
Prayer is just thought. Thought is the province of the brain. The brain controls the body. That's why the placebo effect works and can result in actual healing of physical afflictions. The ability to heal by faith is something that we all have. 99% of the things that go wrong with people will get better without medical care.
Prayer can heal your chronic pain; you can condition yourself not to feel it, or to secrete endorphins to relieve it. It's simply a matter of meditation and mind control which some people focus through religious imagery. No big mystery.
Meditation can also make you feel high if you can get out of your emotional cesspool long enough to concentrate on a higher state of being. Peyote and marijuana simulate the deep trance state in some ways, and that's why people find them appealing. Cheating to get there using drugs is the problem; you get the high without altering your emotional state along the way, and that's why you always want to go back for more drugs.
You'll never find what you're missing, because the drugs take you just so far, and then prevent you from getting to the end. It's sad, but hey, it's your life -- such as it is.
October 2, 2009 at 11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
As far as the religious side of life is concerned, that's a conversation for another time, on another comment board, far, far away from here. I realize that for some, the debate revolves around any number of deep rooted spiritual issues. However, for argument's sake, let's leave god and the rest of the story out of it. I don't think that any federal ruling on the matter will be resultant of vastly deep theological discussion. Ergo, moral/religious grounds for continued marijuana prohibition are a mute point.
It is true that the human body is an amazing piece of equipment. It heals itself, replenishes itself and even aspirates all on its own. However, if the body runs low on fuel, it does not simply create more. It might start to devour itself, but it will not sustain itself. If the body runs out of water, it does not create more. There are certain things that the body does and there are certain things the body does not do. I do not, personally, know what the physical limitations are of your body, but my body does not regularly produce enough dopamine to regulate the pain that I have dealt with on a daily basis since high school. I have discovered that I have to assist my body in producing the necessary levels of dopamine by regularly giving it abnormal levels of THC. Call me an addict, call me a junkie, whatever makes you feel better a night. But the truth of the matter is that you don't have the right, unless of coarse you're a doctor, to judge the severity of any individual's pain, nor do you have the right to tell any individual how to treat or deal with their respective pain. However, if you have discovered a way to meditate or pray the right amount, or any amount, of dopamine into the human body, then please, by all means, enlighten me. I know thousands, if not millions, of people that would love to know about it.
October 2, 2009 at 11:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Barring a genetic defect, dopamine deficiency should not be a physical affliction.
Somehow you turned it off. Unless there's physical damage to the cells that secrete it, they can be turned back on. I suspect that it's a genetic condition which caused the cells to shut down (like ovaries stop producing estrogen). It could be as simple as not eating your vegetables.
How many times do I have to say that compassionate medicinal use should be okay? That still doesn't resolve the ongoing legal issues, which are real, and mean that mmj is not for everybody.
October 2, 2009 at 2:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mtroach ( anonymous ) says...
achy; Would you agree that legalization and MMJ use are simply another example of the decline of mankind? (supporting your end times theory)
October 3, 2009 at 7:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mtroach ( anonymous ) says...
What about the recently released stat that in some states drug overdose has overtaken driving fatalites as the leading cause of death? (Rx OD's)
October 3, 2009 at 7:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Roach,
It all sounds plausible to me. Civilizations have ended for other reasons that included people using toxic substances.
My basic premise is that people should be self-reliant and self-supporting once they reach adulthood. Drug abuse of any sort, including alcohol, can tip the scale from self-supporting to dependent on society, and when enough people are on the dole that the productive ones cannot keep up with the needs of all, the system collapses. The collapse of the Soviet Union is a perfect modern example of how a civilization fell because its productive efforts could not keep up with the needs of the citizens (but this included a massive military debt, of course, mandated by a dictatorial government).
I'm not trying to predict Armageddon or any of that nonsense. I'm just driving around the pot holes when I see them in time, and don't understand why others are not similarly motivated toward self-preservation.
Given a choice between food and cocaine, rats will choose coke until they die of starvation. There are people right here in town that have done pretty much the same thing. Our local vocal pro-drug segment of society seems to think that it's okay for other people to die of drug abuse as long as the drugs are available to the ones who want them. It's a victimless crime, they say. Right. Nice try.
The affordable housing crowd is concerned about our "community," but I wonder how many of those who are pro-affordable and those who so-called "need" affordable housing are also spending money on recreational substance abuse.
My sense of the problem is that there are many local people who are in a housing pinch and also use/deal drugs and also cheat on taxes (don't declare all of their income for one reason or another). Don't ask me how I know, but I know some who fit parts of this profile and it's not hard to fill in the blanks on others. Since undocumented loans are pretty much a thing of the past, I think we're going to see an out-migration of those who have been living in the underground economy and they will be replaced by people who live responsibly and pay taxes. Time will tell.
And as for the OD's being higher than traffic fatalities, I blame physicians and drug companies. The one person whose drug abuse I know the most about was a health care provider who used his medical license to provide controlled substances to criminals who resold them on the street for a profit. He escaped prosecution by fleeing the country for seven years until the heat died down. So, I'm pretty sure there are abuses going on in every possible way they can. The one thing that will save anybody is personal responsibility, however, and that's what our society lacks.
October 4, 2009 at 7:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
trump_suit ( anonymous ) says...
"My sense of the problem is that there are many local people who are in a housing pinch and also use/deal drugs and also cheat on taxes (don't declare all of their income for one reason or another). Don't ask me how I know, but I know some who fit parts of this profile and it's not hard to fill in the blanks on others. Since undocumented loans are pretty much a thing of the past, I think we're going to see an out-migration of those who have been living in the underground economy and they will be replaced by people who live responsibly and pay taxes. Time will tell"
There you go again blaming the run-up in real estate prices on the illegal drug trade. I call you for facts on this. DO YOU HAVE ANY, or is this just another "Aichism"?
I have never downplayed the problem of drug abuse, but I have separated the issues of drug use and drug abuse. The costs of drug use and abuse to our society at large is smaller than the problems being caused by the black market supply chain. Why do you never respond to this poiint?
Your opinion that "Drugs are Bad" is not at fault here. The blind spot seems to be somewhere in the middle of drug use, drug abuse and the current legal status of "some" of the prolem substances. It is my contention that substance "x" is not the root problem here The root problem as you have stated is personal responsibility. How do drugs being illegal get at the root of the responsibility issue?
October 4, 2009 at 8:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mtroach ( anonymous ) says...
"And as for the OD's being higher than traffic fatalities, I blame physicians and drug companies....The one thing that will save anybody is personal responsibility, however, and that's what our society lacks."
Why blame drug companies/doctors instead of the end user? Personal responsibility= responsibility for your own actions not blaming drug companies, or any one else.
October 4, 2009 at 9:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
It's obvious that aich has some sort of vendetta stored away for the potheads of this nation. It's also obvious that I'm not the only one who sees this. Aich, all of your drug rhetoric is nothing more than a culmination of a life time of fear. You're so damn worried about all the little stoners running rampant in your perfect little mountain town that you miss the real issues and problems that plague society. Or even worse, you equate all of the negativity, horror, murder, physical and mental abuse with the innocent people that burn a Marley down instead of taking a ride on some groovy pharmaceuticals or pickle their liver with vodka and scotch.
From the fervor and passion exuding from your previous comments, I would have expected more rants and raves about other bad things in society. Maybe you believe the story your government tells of how many other drugs marijuana will take you directly to. Maybe you believe that most potheads find a quiet spot, every so often, to mainline some heroin or something. Maybe you think along the same lines as the DEA douches that believe they're doing god's work by helping to eradicate this scourge from the face of the earth.
Maybe you disagree with the people that founded this nation, the likes of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, who knew that marijuana had more to offer than the peaceful bliss that enveloped them on a daily basis. They found out how useful the cannabis plant is and they prospered greatly from it. As a matter of fact, at one point in American history marijuana was a crop that was ordered to be cultivated under penalty of law. In other words, these patriarchal potheads made a law stating that every farmer HAD to cultivate some, not all, of their land with marijuana. They thought that it was such a valuable resource they made it illegal to NOT help produce some. They took the means that they had at hand and they built a navy and a frikin nation out of it. This would not be the last time that our country mandated the production of a resource during times of crisis. Remember anything about what we did during WWII? Almost over night, our president ordered car manufacturers to become tank and plain factories in support of our men and women "over there."
You have repeatedly connected countless issues to marijuana usage that have little, to nothing, to do with anything. I would once again implore you to do some independent research on the topic at hand. Go online and search out some videos made by people that believe this costly drug war has been allowed to exist for far too long. I dare you to educate yourself on the other side of the issue because, at this point, it appears painfully obvious that you are stubbornly ignorant of the other side of the issue. I dare you to listen. I dare you to comprehend what the argument is really about.
October 4, 2009 at 11:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
I really hate the 3000 character limit they impose on comments. I think I'm gonna write my congressman.
October 4, 2009 at 11:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
mmj,
I watched part of "In Pot We Trust" tonight.
Wow. The guy treating himself for PTSD is a sympathetic character until you see him savoring the idea of one kind of pot to get him going in the morning, and another for evening. That's not a person taking medicine. That's a stoner just reveling in getting high. I can't think of a scene that would be more destructive to the medical marijuana cause than that one.
Mommy got her head blown off and junior is a pot head as a result. The guy may be mentally ill from that trauma, but he might be mentally ill anyway.
On the other hand, the story of the kid taking chemo for leukemia and pot letting him eat afterwards and escape nausea was compelling. I'm right there with you on this one.
Trump, to you I'll only say that there would be no addiction if personal responsibility would work. It won't. Personal consequences and consequences to others happen instead, and that's why legalizing everything and letting the chips fall will never happen. It makes no difference to me except for the collateral damage that would be caused by users harming others (traffic accidents, etc.) and failure to support families.
Honestly, the biggest thing wrong with this little mountain town is a lack of sophisticated people to talk to intelligently about a variety of interesting and important subjects. Very little national/world focus except artsy-fartsy fluff. Where has everyone's brain gone?
And Trump, I do have information, and it's from someone in a position to know who contacted ME about a related controversy I was involved in some time back. I'm just not going to name names here and commit libel. You're fishing. Let's just say that in certain professional communities around town, the extent and degree of drug trafficking is common knowledge, as well as the extent of money laundering, tax evasion and transactions based on inside knowledge from public proceedings. Prices would have gone up, regardless, but different people would own the property if proceeds from trafficking were not involved.
October 4, 2009 at 9:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mtroach ( anonymous ) says...
This is not the first time you have come onto this forum with evidence of a crime that for whatever reason you do not turn over to the proper law enforcement. Whatever happend to the "white collar" criminals that were rempaging your subdivision?nothing? Is this the same bunch that is pushing up RE values from drug trafficing? Don't you think the CBI would be interrested in a drug trafficing ring that is also fixing RE prices with there proceeds? I belive, Racketering is what that's called.
You need to talk to law enforcement instead of posting this type of baseless retoric. You posts reek of parnoid, are you sure that someone is not doping your water supply with MMJ?
October 5, 2009 at 8 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Wow aich! You really are twisted.
So, let me see if I've got this straight. Pot for cancer is good, but pot for MS is bad? WTF eh?
October 5, 2009 at 8:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
I really wish I knew that guy in the movie that had MS. I bet you wouldn't be so free and careless with you "opinions" if you were face to face with a real person. I'd love to see you tell that guy your position on his illness. I think it's so sad that you have to find the common enemy that your government has fooled you into believing is there and then proceed to ridicule that person, whom by the way, you don't even know. How ignorant!!! I guess he didn't appear sophisticated enough for your standards. Maybe his seizures weren't graceful enough for you to consider them worthy of sympathy. Did you miss the part in the movie where three tokes of some devil's lettuce almost immediately shut-down the seizures he was having? No it's not a permanent effect, but find something else that can stop seizures like that. Whatever the hell is going on in that sick little head of yours seems to have taken deep roots. I'd recommend you get out and get some help with that. If you let all that mean, ignorant, thoughtless, crowd-following, immature bias and hatred take too deep of a root in your life, pretty soon you'll be all alone and no one will want to talk to you. Have you ever been truly alone? I don't know how the people in your life deal with you, but I sure would like to know how they got patient enough to tolerate your presence and the poison that spills from your mouth.
October 5, 2009 at 9:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
And as far as different strengths, flavors and strains goes, ever heard of cherry cough syrup? What about grape? How about 50mg ibuprofen? Ok, and 800mg ibuprofen?
How stupid would it be if there was only one strain, one flavor and one potency of marijuana? Last time I did any biology studying, I seem to recall there being many branches of each main limb in both the plant and animal kingdom. Do you have any idea how many different kinds of monkeys there are in the world? No you don't. But they're all monkeys. Have you ever been to a grocery store? Ever notice all those pretty colors in the apple section of the produce department? They all taste slightly different, but yet, texturally at least, all like apples. So, you're argument is, "that guy is a complete waste/addict/worthless abuser because he likes and knows the tastes of different stands of marijuana"? Really? Honestly? You're gonna have to do a whole hell of a lot better than that if you plan on making ANY headway in your argument.
October 5, 2009 at 9:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
julipj ( anonymous ) says...
Stereotyping POT Users is easy for some ignorant people like
"aic HEMP ty", i challenge u to the following, play poker or chess with me after i smoke a huge bowl, too difficult? maybe u don't even know how to move the pieces....what about an IQ test? i'm over 128 so far and increasing..... we'll see who the dumbass is my friend, wanna talk about politics, religion, science? let's light it up and see how smart you are, julian_evil666@hotmail.com is my mail in case u don't pussy out aic HEMP ty, we'll do it in spanish also how many languages u speak? cya
October 5, 2009 at 12:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
Never fails to amaze me that simple stupidity and no ambition is NOT the reason for the lack of advancement for some folks. I didn't realize that ALL losers were stoners and vice versa. I always assumed that IQ might have played a part.
Wow, learn something new every day!
(yes, please note the dripping sarcasm..again.)
October 5, 2009 at 2:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Okay, you win.
Now what?
October 5, 2009 at 3:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
Time for another thought provoking article, something to raise our dander?????
October 5, 2009 at 4:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
It was best that you gave up aich. Maybe you'd like to try your debate skills with something a little easier. This isn't really one of those win-able ones for you.
October 5, 2009 at 7:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
NchronicPain ( anonymous ) says...
Holy BaJeezzus!!! I go outta town for a few days and this crap kept goin' on and on....
Here's my two cents!!.... After some nice Durban this morning to wake up, I enjoyed reading this! And the BananaOGKush that will put me at rest this eve has already calmed my nerves for the day ahead. And the IslandSweetSkunk tincture, if needed during the day, is always a safer and better choice than Ibuprofen. So.... On with life people! Keep seeking the truth!! :)
October 6, 2009 at 8:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
mmj,
The only thing this thread demonstrates is that marijuana is a psychologically addictive substance that should be used carefully under medical supervision to avoid harm to the users and to society.
Dopamine production and reception can be affected by toluene (glue sniffing) and cocaine. Dopamine deficiency is both a genetic and an acquired condition. Since I don't know your history, I can't say what happened in your case, but I will thank you for carrying this thread far enough for me to discover the connection. I learned something new, and as a result, I realize that some abusers cannot be cured. Therefore, I'll stop donating money to organizations that treat substance abuse, and put it where it will do more good . . . into green fees.
October 6, 2009 at 8:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
trump_suit ( anonymous ) says...
Look all, you have finally won the arguement!!!! Aich is going to pay "Greens Fees" and join you.
Funny Aich, how much of yourself do you donate to what you consider worthy causes? We have discussed this before, have you found even one organization that could use some of your help? Your President has called you to service, have you answered that call?
You need to wake up and take off those rose coloured glasses of yours. The world has changed, the rules are different and some of your long held "facts" are being left behind in the minefield of history. Regardless of your opinions, there are a majority of people now that disagree with you and changes are coming. 13 states have legalized MMJ in some form, and 13 more currently have that legislation under discussion.
When put to a vote of the public, these laws usally pass with 55-60% Sounds to me like you are losing this debate on a large scale.
October 6, 2009 at 8:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
You beat me to it trump. I was logging in when you posted that last one. Green fees, that's where a lot of my money goes too.
Good to have you back nChronic.
and ps....there are actually 15 states deliberating the pros and cons of de-criminalizing cannabis for medical users.
October 6, 2009 at 8:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Wow. You guys really have been doing damage to your brains. How many times do I have to say that I agree with legal use of marijuana for medicinal purposes.
It's the unlimited recreational use aspect that I don't support.
It's ABUSE that I don't support.
Legalization for non-medical purposes is the thing that the population in general will never support.
Valid medical use under a physician's supervison is NOT ABUSE!
If you cannot understand the difference between use and abuse, then I'm not the one with the problem, and obviously, you are.
October 6, 2009 at 11:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Duke_bets ( anonymous ) says...
mmj - aich has won the debate.
nchron - Placing colorful names on drugs is fairly sad. That's how the kiddies label the crap.
juli - 128 IQ................Well, mine is 240 and I speak 13 languages. Smoke another bowl because you seem pissed. Why are you so mad at aich? He doesn't support pot smokers. Why should anyone?
October 6, 2009 at 12:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
NchronicPain ( anonymous ) says...
I love it when people make statements with no knowledge of what they speak of....
Dukey, the names I spoke of above are NOT names the "kiddies" made up.... The Durban is a registered trademark of the Sensi Seed Bank in Amsterdam. The BananaOGKush is a name given by medical breeders and this medicine smells and tastes like Bananas naturally. In dispensaries, magazines and seed banks around the world, you will find plants with specific names. Indica, Sativa and Ruderalis are all "families" of Cannabis strains. These Landrace strains (meaning where they originated from in the world physically) can be cross bred. These crossbreeds i.e. hybrids usually end up with a distinct name that sticks with the plant and it's seeds. This industry is a multi-billion dollar worldwide business. I didn't make up the colorful names for sh#ts and giggles, Dukey, they are called those names around the world.
Next assinine comment please......
October 6, 2009 at 1:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Duke_bets ( anonymous ) says...
nchron - I didn't say that you made them up and I realize that dope has many pseudonyms around the world. I stated that colorful names for drugs are sad. That is how they are promoted to youth. Most potheads and drug abusers use pseudonyms in reference to ease their own mind.
Crack is a colorful name known worldwide for methamphetamines.
October 6, 2009 at 1:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jk ( anonymous ) says...
Wow dukey you and that overinflated iq of yours should stop while you are ahead!
October 6, 2009 at 2:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
NchronicPain ( anonymous ) says...
LMAO at jk and LMAO even more at Dukey-licious!!
Crack has nothing to do with amphetamines!! LOL It's cocaine in smokable form!! There is no point in trying to argue this point if this is the response I have gotten.
Wowsers people..... An Australian musical artist, John Butler, has a song that goes, "Go take a step outside, see what's shakin' in the real world...." It seems that some posters to this comment section need to do just that. Or at least educate yourselves on topics before posting.
October 6, 2009 at 2:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Duke_bets ( anonymous ) says...
Nchron - I now give you more credit to your support of pot smokers. You truly have no clue other than fancy fruit flavored names for pot. No further explanation needed.
October 6, 2009 at 3:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Duke....you miserable bafoon. Please, by all means, show me exactly where in the conversation the tables turned in aich's favor. I would love to see you reference the crushing points he made that so undoubtedly won this argument for him. Maybe we were reading 2 different comment sections.
And as far as the different, silly names for all of the different flavors, strengths and strands goes.....you're kidding right? So the guys that named Macintosh, Granny Smith's, Gala and the multitude of other farmers(hundreds by the way) that have named an apple variety are all just hopeless apple junkies that have nothing better to do with their time than think up silly names that appeal to kids? I know you're probably going to explode with joy after reading that I've equated apples to pot, so why don't you go ahead and volley the next debate bomb over the fence. I'm sure that of all the people that have supported the prohibition of marijuana, you're going to be the one to make the case and seal the deal for everyone. Maybe we've just misunderstood everyone before you that's proclaimed the evils of pot. Maybe the millions of cannabis users across America will finally see the truth about pot......thanks to the righteous light you're about to put on it. Please Duker, please show us the way. You're our only hope.
October 7, 2009 at 8:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
I'd ask you to regale us with some of the linguistics in your arsenal, but how hard is it to look up some translation web sites?
And an IQ of 240? Really? C'mon man. Don't be one of those lying douches that just looks up IQ world records(a quick Google of Marylin von Savant or Guinness IQ records should suffice) and claims them for themselves. So why don't you go find some other chumps to gulp down your BS?
October 7, 2009 at 10:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Duke_bets ( anonymous ) says...
mmj - Lay off the smoke for one minute and you may be able to comprehend sarcasm. The IQ comments were for juli who evidently is the world's best poker player, has a doctorate in government / politics and also fluent in Spanish. Those are all excuses that ease a pothead's mind. I didn't start the IQ stuff, but was simply being a smart A**.
And, comparing apple's to dope is absurd. I'm not exploding with joy over this, but am shaking my head in confusion. You can use the crap all you want. You can make up millions of reasons and excuses to comfort yourself. That's not my point. I am highly against the promotion of drug use. That's what this is all about. You give it fancy names because it's illegal. You call it medicine and not dope. A lot of people get it prescribed for a chronic backache. And, I'll state this one more time..pot smokers carry medical marijuana cards. Nobody else. You probably won't understand that comment, so I'll explain it. Nobody tries marijuana for the first time because it was prescribed by a doctor. People that smoke marijuana look for an excuse to have it prescribed by a doctor legally.
October 7, 2009 at 1:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
Duke- I think you have to write a disclaimer: Please Note the Dripping Sarcasm! As I have already posted this disclaimer a few times, I will not do it again here.....:)
And, yes some people do try it for the first time when told it may help what ever ailment they have by a doctor. Not always done on the up and up, but it does happen.
October 7, 2009 at 4:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
NchronicPain ( anonymous ) says...
Dookie, in most cases you are correct, the large majority of people who possess a mmj card used mj prior to the recommendation from their doc that it will help. In some, rarer cases, the patient has not ever used mj before and finds it's effectiveness after being recommended to use it. There is a grand explanation to why this phenomenon is in place. Our genius Federal government claims that mj has no medicinal value (even in the face of a mountain of facts that prove otherwise). Therefore, with our nation being overrun with brainless sheep, the majority of folks will stay away from mj in general. Lastly, Duker, I pat you on the back for coming up with your revelation!! Good job on seeing through everything to the real truth: People who smoke pot will probably seek an mmj card. GENIUS!!
October 8, 2009 at 9:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
It brings a smile to my face that I don't even have to tell you how ridiculous you are. I don't even have to defend myself because the things you say are so absurd that the other logic-minded people that read it instantly feel obligated to tell you just how silly your comments are. Thanks to people like Nchronic and bandmama I don't have to post as much.
However, I believe that it bears mentioning the irony involved in a self-proclaimed "land of the free" being among a very few countries in the world that still upholds a law that prohibits a plant(bear in mind that the law also prohibits the cultivation of every strain of cannabis, including the industrial hemp strains that don't have psychoactive properties OR get you high).
The impossible challenge remains standing:
Justify the current prohibition that makes industrial hemp illegal. I dare you to try!
October 8, 2009 at 11:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
mmj,
The only two countries I can find which put no restrictions on pot are the Czech Republic (for adults) and Pakistan.
Even Jamaica still has laws against it.
It's no big revelation that the countries with the most drug abuse have the lowest productivity. At least the guys in Somalia have enough ambition to become pirates, but I guess that' probably because they don't have welfare, disability payments and medicaid for lunatics. We appear to be the world leaders in declaring drug addiction to be a sickness and allowing people to sit home on disability while continuing to use.
October 8, 2009 at 1:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
NchronicPain ( anonymous ) says...
^^another well thought out response.... wtf? Where did that come from??
Am I still on planet Earth?
October 8, 2009 at 1:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
From today's Denver Post:
GREELEY, Colo.-A man who told officers he was a medical marijuana provider has been arrested for allegedly standing naked in a Colorado highway, pounding on passing cars and spitting at a state trooper.
Dustin Robbins, 27, of Westminster, faces 13 counts including indecent exposure, assault and driving under the influence of marijuana.
Robbins was arrested Sept. 25 on U.S. 34 east of Greeley. Witnesses told investigators he was cursing at cars and hitting some.
Two women in their 70s and 80s told deputies a naked man jumped on the hood of their car, broke windows, walked across the roof and jumped off the back. Damage was estimated at $1,200.
Authorities said Robbins spat on the state trooper who arrested him.
Deputies said he told them he was a medical marijuana provider, and they found certificates for medical marijuana but no state provider's license.
State officials said records of licensed providers aren't public.
Robbins is jailed under $50,000 bail. No phone listing could be found for him and it wasn't known if he had a lawyer
October 8, 2009 at 1:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
NchronicPain ( anonymous ) says...
^^HOLY CRAP, that's my dad!!! kidding!!
Honestly, that's pretty disturbing. This guy obviously went off the deep end with more than just mmj. I have yet to see mj cause a person to behave like this. But, I'm sure everyone blames the weed!! I mean, this had to be a completely sane individual until he got ahold of the life-destroying, insanity-causing, brain-melting weeeeeed!!!..............riiiiight........uh huh.... ya
October 8, 2009 at 2:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Duke_bets ( anonymous ) says...
nchron - Your 1.38 response must be towards the 11.48 response by mmj.
mmj - Aich blew you up again. You have a smile on your face because your stoned. Do you really believe the USA is one of very few countries to still ban weed? You have to be smarter than that. Talk about absurd responses. And, now you're on to industrial hemp. Are you making rope with the dope or getting high for no particular reason?
Now on to another great point by Aich...........What percentage of marijauna card holders also receive government benefits? Duke bets its off the charts. So, don't tell me the government doesn't support the potheads.
October 8, 2009 at 2:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
Oh come on, agree to disagree and move on. This is an arguement that no one is going to "win".
Duke-gotta ask though, what is the percentage of people on government assistance who DONT smoke, drink, or indulge? I am asking because you and Aich seem to be saying that if you are a "loser" than you automatically are a stoner or a drunk or an abuser of some substance.
I really cant believe that two people who are obviously well read cant accept that there are losers/abusers as well as highly successful/respected people in all walks of life. What society usually hears however, is the bad.
Without the experimental use of so many substances, natural as well as man made, we would never fully benefit from those
substances. MJ happens to have a very bad rep because as Aich has repeatedly pointed out, it has been "abused". It does not make the plant bad, it makes the person who made bad choices that much more of an idiot.
The industrial uses of hemp are endless, who knows what other uses may be found? (Ok, my favorite are the hemp hearts Aich, have you done any follow up on that? they really are tasty and THC FREE....no buzz involved.)
California (according to the Pilot...today) is looking to legalize pot, think of the number of REAL (as in violent, or deviant) criminals may be kept behind bars, think of the tax revenue for a state that as I recall, is broke.
Sometimes we have to think outside of our own comfort levels. Many points of interest have been posted here. Wouldn't it be nice if instead of tossing insults out, really make a point of trying to see both sides.
October 8, 2009 at 4:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nurmidst ( anonymous ) says...
Didn't anyone tell this cop it is very very very very dangerous to take other peoples medication! Tampering with evidence theft? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IoCGp...
October 8, 2009 at 8:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Ok boys & girls, let's review. Medical weed is a non-issue, at least in this state and 12 others(15 more have the issue on the table). The medicinal provision(s) for marijuana should be a nation-wide right given to every citizen that needs it. There still exists federal law(s) that dictate the illegality of all marijuana, in all forms(except of coarse for the government, which at one point starting growing marijuana for testing purposes and then, federally, assigned a prescription to a VERY limited number of ill citizens, some of whom still get their tin can of 300 joints from Uncle Sam, once a month............for free). On top of the hypocrisy involved in banning a substance only to turn right around and grow/give it away, the government of these United States sees fit to arrest/prosecute/fine/imprison/stain the lives of the people that are unlucky enough to get caught associating with this alleged "evil." Our government spends billions of our dollars to set up a system that bases profit on pot convictions and then proceeds to move over one desk, wearing a very different hat this time, to dole out the very substance that they're making so much money off of by prohibiting it to the general public. Are you still following me? Kind of a bumpy road, I know.
The main point I was shooting for earlier was to show how absurd it is to ban a plant; not the one that gets you all goof-i-fied, but a sub-strain that does NOT get you high. I'll repeat that. They ban ALL strains of cannabis, even the ones that have ZERO psychoactive properties.
So please, WTF!? Please, show me how this makes sense. Show me how this is not corrupt. Please, tell me why I should support that corrupt of a system. Provide some logical defense for our government's hypocrisy.
Take a minute, if you'd like, and shoot over to Wikipedia.com to look at the information that they've compiled on hemp. There's a very interesting section called "Countries that produce hemp." I would highly recommend reading this in reference to my earlier comment about America having retarded/ignorant cannabis laws and how we are screwing ourselves by prohibiting the cultivation of a plant that is about as dangerous as bubble gum.
October 9, 2009 at 9:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
NchronicPain ( anonymous ) says...
Welcome to the USA....
October 9, 2009 at 10:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
MMJ- well said.
October 9, 2009 at 11:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Thank you. It is my sincerest desire to, at the very least, be a severe pain in the a$$ to those that blindly accept and follow the "ways of old" without giving any thought as to why. I believe one of our biggest problems as Americans is our ability to utterly ignore and shut-out alternative views that challenge our current status quo. The leaders of this country have long ignored the responsibilities that come with making the decisions that affect its citizenry. It's time for us, as a collective whole, to stand up to the power/money-hungry and corrupt bastards that have given all of the rest of us such a great reputation throughout the globe. It doesn't mean that it's right to judge a people by their leadership, but it happens.
October 9, 2009 at 1:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
blinger ( anonymous ) says...
CRACK
October 9, 2009 at 10:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Thank Reagan for that one.
October 9, 2009 at 10:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
The human race is full of weak-minded people who cannot be trusted to self-govern when faced with an easy way out through welfare benefits, disability income or addictive substances.
Unfortunately, hemp is associated with negative social consequences that spill over into putting a burden on taxpayers.
We don't have any positive role models that show legalization of pot makes people healthy and productive. So, where are they? Where are the success stories in the states where mmj is decriminalized?
I've got no problem with using pot where it provides a medical benefit. It's no different than any other drug in that respect.
The problem is political, but then so are many others. Global warming is political. Gay marriage is political. People who are not convinced of the benefits or are against anything on the basis of their personal beliefs are going to be very difficult to convince.
Personally, I'd like to see all able-bodied men serve four years in the armed forces and then be held in a reserve status until the age of 40. If we had more common citizens involved in military leadership and fewer academy-bred careerists, getting automatic promotions while others who are more capable are forced out based on longevity alone, this country would be much stronger and smarter when it comes to national security. Our security should not depend on having a qualified leader in the right place at the right time to make the best decisions, but that's how it works.
So, legalizing marijuana is just another polictical issue with it's constituency like all the others, from gay marriage to longer school years, and if the general population doesn't support it, nothing will change.
The idea of legalizing pot is no different from the guy who walked from Texas to Washington dragging a big cross. He got a lot of attention, but what did he change along the way? Not very much in the national sense.
The problem with legalization of hemp is the image of stoners in the minds of the general population. You've got to change that image to make progress with legalization, and unfortunately, lauding the merits of various strains of pot in a forum like this doesn't convince people that mmj patients are responsible users.
Without majority popular support, only a fundamental constitutional issue that gains the support of the Supreme Court can legalize hemp. So, good luck with that.
October 11, 2009 at 11:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
You want to talk about tax-payer burden? Really? Ok, let's talk about tax-payer burden(s). Do have the slightest clue of how many billions of tax-payer dollars are spent on arresting/sending to trial/ imprisoning people whose only crime is possessing a plant? Since you don't seem to be in possession of this fact, here it is; roughly $42 Billion, annually. I would love to hear you try to justify/validate the $42 billion dollars spent on finding and eradicating cannabis. Make the case that there is NOT a better use for this money in today's society, I dare you.
Secondly, what the hell is with expecting some nationally heroic figure to emerge from the whole marijuana debate, that will win over the hearts and minds of most Americans? Did alcohol have such a person? What about tobacco? Coffee? So, you're saying that in order for marijuana to become a widely accepted part of American culture it's going to need some sort of Joe Camel or coffee-laden donkey with a Colombian guy on top, to be it's image? Or are you just looking for success stories? I could probably look up a couple of dispensaries and cannabis clubs that could vouch for some of the success(es) they've encountered since medical laws were enacted. What about the thousands of success stories from those that can now, legally, enjoy/buy/grow/possess the medicine that allows them to lead rich, fulfilling lives?
But I don't think you're looking for any of that. You're just looking for something to bitch about, obviously.
And last, but certainly not least, in regards to your views about mandatory military service and reserve status, WOW! That explains a lot. You know, you'd probably be much more satisfied living and fighting in Israel. I'm sure you could find plenty of new friends over there and your extreme views might just be a little more at home over there.
Oh, and the cross-bearer on a cross-country trip.....really? You're gonna try and compare the movement to legalize cannabis with some nut-job that got bored and decided to take up his own cross? WTF man?! Why not compare coffee addicts to meth-heads or heroin users?
October 11, 2009 at 3:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Oh yeah! And apparently, being knowledgeable about the ins and outs of marijuana makes my debate for ending the prohibition of marijuana completely null and void? You have GOT to be kidding me! So you're saying that some one with less knowledge on the subject would be better qualified and more successful at arguing the same points? What the hell kind of sense does that make?
As is the case in most arguments, the winner is usually not the person with the least knowledge of the topic at hand. There is very little that can be done about the few bad apples that give the rest of "us" a bad name. However, instead of focusing on the people that obviously have no clue about what's going on in a debate, you could recognize that every issue, even some that you feel heavily about, has some idiots that embarrass one side and give ammunition to the other side. It's pretty easy to pick off the ignorant in a debate, but why not rise to the challenge of arguing the real points and facts? Why not go toe to toe with someone that actually knows what they're talking about, while letting the stubbornly ignorant be as they may?
October 11, 2009 at 4:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Got kinda quiet in here....
October 15, 2009 at 11:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
LOL!
Perhaps a bit of reflection going on?
October 15, 2009 at 1:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
That's all that any of us can hope for.
October 15, 2009 at 3:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mtroach ( anonymous ) says...
"The idea of legalizing pot is no different from the guy who walked from Texas to Washington dragging a big cross. He got a lot of attention, but what did he change along the way? Not very much in the national sense."
He did get tossed in jail for being a deadbeat. Remember...
Not being from the Steamboat area, but making a contribution to the discussion regarding James Strickland, I feel it necessary to keep you informed of the developments that have transpired since my dropping off James yesterday morning. Below is the email that I wrote to the men's group a couple of hours ago that had breakfast with James yesterday. This was immediately after a call I recieved from James. It is only fair that I share this with the citizens of Steamboat Springs:.
I just received a call from James Strickland. He told me that he didn't make it out of Bountiful yesterday as they were having their (Days of '47 Parade) there. The road (Hwy 89) was too congested w/ parade participants. He tried to go onto the interstate but was stopped by a highway patrol and was told he couldn't walk on the interstate. He said that yesterday, after I dropped him off in Bountiful, was one of the most difficult days he's had on his journey. He told me he was laughed at, ridiculed, made fun of, etc. He also confessed to me that he wasn't completely forthright with us yesterday. He neglected to tell us that he was on a parole violation in Washington for burglary. He said that he violated his parole by leaving Washington to see his family (mother) in Texas, like he told us, and that in addition to "carrying the cross", upon his return to Aberdeen, he will surrender himself to authorities for his parole violation.
I'm telling you this because his story is to be printed in tomorrow's Park Record with the addition of his parole violation. In case you've told some about our guest yesterday, I didn't want this fact to come as a surprise. James wanted me to let you all know how welcoming we made him feel at breakfast and that that has been one of his bright spots during his journey. As uplifting as breakfast was for him yesterday, his experiences in Bountiful made him feel ashamed. He acknowledged that he should have told us the whole truth and apologized for not doing so. He knows that he has to live up to what he's done and is trying his best to make it right. He apologized for not being completely honest with us.
from;
http://www.steamboatpilot.com/news/20...
October 16, 2009 at 7:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Granted, my remarks regarding the fellow with the cross might have been a bit rough. However, the thought that someone would compare a movement to RE-legalize cannabis with some guy, in violation of his parole, that's walking a cross half-way across the country, "to see his family," is nothing short of ridiculous and somewhat aggravating. Nothing personal towards the cross guy, hope he enjoys the jail time/parole extension that transpires when he ends up wherever it is that he's going.
The long and short of it is that he has very little to do with this conversation/debate. To bring him up in illustration of the futility of the argument for RE-legalizing cannabis is a mighty big stretch, at best. Why does this argument need to be compared to anything other than the recorded history of cannabis and the laws involved therein? All that someone would have to do is spend five minutes with google to find all of the information they would need to formulate even a half-brained argument against RE-legalizing cannabis. If you have to reach out as far as the cross guy to try to make a "valid" point in this debate, then maybe you need to re-evaluate the hope you hold out for producing anything of value for your side of the argument.
October 16, 2009 at 11:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
mtroach-thank you for the update. I do seem to recall that his intentions were in question during his visit as well as why the mother of his children felt the need to put so many miles between them. If knowing the 'lord" in his mind includes stealing and taking advantage of the kind people along his path, seems self serving to me. That said, I have to agree with mmj, has nothing to do with the basis to this debate
October 16, 2009 at 12:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Au contraire, Maman. This so-called "debate" is doing nothing more for legalization of marijuana than the dude with the cross was doing to save souls.
There are two ways to change a law. The first requires an expensive legal team and a constitutional challenge to a prohibitive law, showing that the prohibition is unconstitutional. You'd have to show something to the effect that depriving people of marijuana deprives them of a civil right guaranteed by the Constitution.
The second way is to get enough people having similar political convictions into the U S Congress to vote to repeal/modify the controlled substances act. I figure if you start now, you might have the support in, oh, twenty years.
mmj, you are hammering at people to try to change their minds. It's not going to work. In order to change someone's mind, you have to understand the way they think and find arguments that fit into their set of values.
The civil rights movement of the 1950s and 60s succeeded because John F. Kennedy, his brother Robert, and Martin Luther King were politically powerful men. Oh, and, it didn't hurt that Robert was the attorney general, and the FBI worked for him, and the federal law enforcement agencies were mobilized to crush violent resistance to civil rights activities.
Oh, and what about AIDS? It took a long time to get public support for AIDS treatment and drugs, etc. And why was that? Duh . . .
So, you see, legalization of marijuana is much closer to the AIDS problem than the civil rights problem. The general public just doesn't care about it enough to support it. It's for "those people," and the silent majority doesn't care if you can't get it legally.
The civil rights movement had Martin Luther King. Marijuana has . . . Bob Marley? One had a dream; the other had hallucinations. Big dif.
October 17, 2009 at 10:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
trump_suit ( anonymous ) says...
Actually Aich, you are very wrong. Drug laws and attitudes are already changing with the exception of your generation
October 18, 2009 at 9:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
And didn't I say, "twenty years?"
Don't be sad. It will fly by.
By the way, don't give me that "attitudes" and "your generation" stuff. My generation was the one taking LSD, dodging the draft, going to Woodstock, smoking grass (as we called it), gnawing on magic mushrooms and trading cocaine for TV network time slots for such winning concepts as "Supertrain," a nuclear powered train of the future. There was a time in the 80s when the only way you got a show on TV was to supply cocaine to the network execs.
A very few people got rich this way. An overwhelming majority ended up in trouble with money, relationships, the law and dead-end careers or underemployment.
When the generation you consider to be more accepting of drugs lives through the aftermath, they won't be voting to legalize marijuana either. I can point to too many people who lost ten years of their lives and, no doubt, 1/4 to 1/2 million in lifetime earnings before they figured out what was going on. A lot of them are the ones who don't have a down payment on a house in Steamboat Springs. Don't you get it?
Drugs dull your mind. Anything more than a beer after work is going to take its toll, and for some, even that's too much.
October 18, 2009 at 11:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
NchronicPain ( anonymous ) says...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091019/a...
Enough said.
October 19, 2009 at 7:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
trump_suit ( anonymous ) says...
Boy Aich, the new stance by the justice dept. looks suspiciously like a change in attitude by our top law enforcement officials.
Couple that with the attitudes changing in the population at large and that 20 year wait time seems largely over. Maybe you are on the wrong side of this debate.
For the record, Aich is correct about the effects of drug use. He/she is just stuck fighting the wrong problem in the wrong way. It is time to legalize these substances and to change the rules in the fight against drug abuse. It is not the goal that is wrong, it is the failed policies that lead to the "war on drugs". It is time to end that war and begin new programs of treatment and education.
October 19, 2009 at 9:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Chronie,
The link is nothing different from what we already know. MEDICAL use of pot is not being prosecuted by the feds in states where it is licensed.
trump,
I have not made a stand against licensed medical use of marijuana since Obama's Executive Order effectively decriminalized it in states that issue licenses.
My point was that since providers and users have to be licensed and are linked to each other, there's no need for a commercial storefront promoting the use of pot in a tourist town that appeals to families with kids. An address on the front door should be enough to enable patients to find the dispensary without alienating people who object to pot use by the non-licensed public.
I visit an allergist's office in another town to receive injections. I know exactly where it is. I know what time to be there and which days injections are given. I don't need a big neon hypodermic needle and jars filled with allergy pills on display in the front window to know where to go. The general public can't just walk in there and say, "hey, give me a shot" without the doctor's evaluation and a prescription order. Pot dispensaries are no different in principle.
We can't buy sudafed anymore without showing an ID and quantities are limited, and this is because it's used to make crystal meth. So where's this trend toward fewer prohibitions on drugs when you can't buy a cold pill without an ID?
Treatment and education are great ideas. They also need to come with spankings and time-outs to be effective.
Tell me how educating a drug trafficker is going to turn him into an honest citizen. If they can't make money selling illegal drugs, they'll find another way to make a living illegally. Personally, I'd rather have the Mexicans selling pot to mmj's friends than carjacking me, holding me up at the ATM or breaking into my house. The Italian Mafia didn't give up crime when prohibition was repealed. They just moved on to other criminal activities, including some with legitimate front offices (like supplying sub-standard concrete for construction projects -- cutting the mix a sack or two short on portland cement and pocketing the difference. It adds up.)
Education worked for AIDS because it carries a death sentence. Education didn't stop people from engaging in risky behavior; it mostly showed them how to do the same things more safely. If the risk of death is not enough to stop people from doing it in the hiney with strangers, how is education going to stop people from smoking pot. I supposed they could put condoms on the pipes to prevent inhalation of smoke . . .
October 19, 2009 at 10:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
"An address...bla-bla...object to pot use by the non-licensed public." Aich, what in the world does a big cannabis leaf, on the front of a dispensary that dispenses legal cannabis, to legal card-holders only, have to do with offending people that don't like recreational use? I gotta tell ya aich, as a patient myself, I couldn't give less of a hoot what the general public thinks of me, or the non-licensed smokers. The non-licensed smokers aren't the issue. Neither is people's opinions of them. Why should I have to care about someone's opinions of my medication preference? I object to a whole armada of pharmaceuticals but I don't go around telling people not to take Oxycontin(which, by the way, is more abused, more fatal, more addictive and more readily available to just about anybody).
"I visit an allergist's office in another town to receive injections...bla-bla-bla(see above)....doctor's evaluation and a prescription order. Pot dispensaries are no different in principle." I recently returned from a weekend in Denver. As I now do every time I go to Denver, I visited a dispensary to get a refill on my prescription. The specific one that I went to this time was a little different from some of the previous ones I have visited. It was in a building with multiple businesses in it and it had covered parking. They took and whited out all of the windows professionally and the only thing that told you that you were in the right place was a small two-digit unit number above the door. No name, no pictures, no neon signs. Took me about 2 minutes to find.
There seems to be an underlying attitude in your comments that you're smarter, more successful and just generally better than those that choose to medicate this way. First of all, get over yourself. You're no better than anyone else on this planet, just like the rest of us aren't. Secondly, and I know I've said this before but it seems to bear repeating, you have admittedly very little personal interaction with people at the heart of this issue. All of your bias, fear and derogatory remarks are based solely on third-hand information, encounters with strangers at the lumber yard and lies that have been presented as facts in some piece of government sponsored propaganda.
And last, but certainly not least, "Tell me how educating a drug trafficker is going to turn him into an honest citizen. If they can't make money selling illegal drugs, they'll find another way to make a living illegally. Personally, I'd rather have the Mexicans selling pot to mmj's friends than carjacking me, holding me up at the ATM or breaking into my house. "
Amazing, simply amazing. Seriously, WTF man?! You've got some serious issues buddy and you remind everyone here of that on a regular basis. Seek help man, honestly.
October 19, 2009 at 3:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
mmj,
You should care what other people think because it reflects on the town and the town lives on tourist dollars.
The place you visited sounds great. Just right. If they follow that model in Steamboat, nobody should complain.
The original article was about the City limiting freedom of speech in identifying pot dispensaries. I guess you've forgotten that . . .
October 19, 2009 at 3:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
hmmmm......federal change in arrest policies for MM users????
anyone else happen to see this headline BLARING?
October 19, 2009 at 5:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Jeff_Kibler ( Jeff Kibler ) says...
Someone had previously commented "I doubt that Eric Holder's Justice Department will prosecute medicinal marijuana
users and/or providers." I'm all for it.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwor...
October 19, 2009 at 6:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
So aich, after saying, "Personally, I'd rather have the Mexicans selling pot to mmj's friends than carjacking me, holding me up at the ATM or breaking into my house," I'm the one who's forgotten what the debate is about? Aich, you haven't lost it because you've never had it. You get an "A" for effort but your debate in this comment board is laughable, at best.
And as far as not caring about what people think, it's my right as a free American, especially after having served in the armed forces that fight to keep it free, to act however the hell I want, with-in the bounds of the law and not have to give a damn about what someone's opinion might be. This is especially true in this case. I'd bleed every last drop to make sure that you still have the right to spew your poisoned "logic" in whatever forum you may choose but that, in no way, means that I have to agree with you or expect you to conform to what my opinions and ideals are. That's the beauty of this country we call America. You can have your opinion with-out having the obligation of being right. I'm glad you're enjoying this luxury aich.
All that I can hope for is that anyone else reading all of these, sometime lengthy, articles and comments can see the progression of the general attitude towards pot in America. Having a new federal law that makes it illegal for the feds to pursue those that are abiding by the laws that their respective state has enacted is some that a lot of people have been waiting on for a long time. Living in a country that realizes the importance of respecting the ideals and perspectives that are held by the smaller, more local communities within it is something that we should all be proud of and something that we should all feel is worth fighting for.
October 19, 2009 at 10:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Well, mmj, I served in the armed forces also, was injured on active duty and lost seven friends (people I had known personally or shared a cockpit with) in ten years. Don't tell me about sacrifice. I worked very hard to earn my way into a very dangerous job while civilians were still spitting on men in uniform following the Vietnam era.
There is not a "new federal law." It's a policy. The law remains in place.
You should look up the story in the news this morning about the Los Angeles prosecutor who has embarked on a new campaign to shut down "for profit" marijuana dispensaries that are violating state law. LA's dispensary population grew from only 4 to 800, and the ones that are violating California's state medicial marijuana laws or breaking another law using the marijuana dispensary as a cover are being shut down by SWAT teams and the operators are being arrested and prosecuted.
It seems clear that medical marijuana is being used as a "cover" by a lot of people in the general population. How come pot users can't seem to follow the law? The people who run licensed pharmacies seem to be able to pull it off, although there are admittedly bad apples in every profession.
Anyway, this is not a debate. The debate that counts must occur in the U S Congress and in the State legislatures, and if medical marijuana providers and users don't follow the laws which provide for compassionate use by those with a valid need, it will never be legalized on a national basis. California took a bold step by allowing medical marijuana, and as most of us expected, it has been abused. If the licensed users and providers don't uphold the requirements of the law, I expect to see the laws repealed. The MMJ experiment can fail just like Prohibition failed, and if it does, it will be because people abused the medical privileges.
I think you and your cronies are failing to realize that pot is a psychologically addictive substance which causes behavioral changes and impairs intellectual function. I don't expect to change your mind, because pot has already done that. I also don't expect you to change anybody else's mind because you clearly don't understand how to make a case for compassionate medical use.
If medical users were responsible and law-abiding, then after a while, "over the counter" pot might become available to the general public. In fact, abuse of medical pot seems to be closer to the norm, and that behavior will defeat any general legalization of the stuff.
The idea that a "debate" can change anything falls into the category of "magical thinking," and if you want to engage in that behavior, then prayer has a better chance of making it happen.
October 20, 2009 at 8:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Aich, you idiot, coffee is more addictive than cannabis. So is tobacco.
Congratulations on your military service, but I still have the right to not give a damn. We both fought for that right and I'm gonna use it. This life is too short to spend it worrying about what people might think. You'll spend your whole life walking on eggshells and missing out on a lot that life has to offer and a lot that people have to offer. Your problem is you give-in to the hype. You probably watch way too much Fox "news" and spend your nights cuddling up to life-size stuffed animal versions of Glenn Beck, Hannity&Colmes and Bill O'Reilly. Hell, you might even have a cute little Rush Limbaugh portrait tattooed on one of your butt cheeks. You just might be one of the baffoons that believes that we're in the Middle East for the sole purpose of spreading freedom and democracy to people that really want it.
The long and short of it is, you could be doing all of those things and more, but that's your right. You can be as ridiculous and absurd as your imagination will let you be but so long as nobody gets hurt and no laws get broke, it's ok.
So, as an American, feel free to continue your rants about how this plant is going to be the down-fall of this nation should it finally RE-legalize cannabis. Go ahead and spit in the face of thousands of years of world history and the countless cultures that embraced the one plant on this earth that has over 25,000 different uses. It's your constitutionally protected right to be that ignorant. So, enjoy.
October 20, 2009 at 10:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
mmj,
Okay, I'm going to lay my cards on the table.
I have nothing to gain or lose by the legalization of medical marijuana. I think that a substance that provides relief to people who are suffering should be available to them. It should be legal and readily available.
There is clear, current medical and scientific proof that marijuana is an addictive substance for "some" people. The behavioral symptoms of substance abuse and addiction outlined in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for classification of psychological illnesses clearly apply to "some" marijuana users. It's the same for alcohol and other substances. I suppose it's also true for some caffeine users, but I haven't met one of those people yet.
I am not a right-wing conservative. I haven't been in a church but twice in the past 10-15 years, and both times it was for someone else's wedding. I didn't vote for Bush or McCain . . . I voted against their opponents. I support health-care reform, a woman's right to have an abortion, and meaningful public safety laws. At the same time, I think an elective abortion for contraception is murder, but it's a murder on the mother's account, and she can answer for it to God if he exists and/or cares about such trivia. I don't want any religious zealot telling me how to live, but I support the right of our society to protect itself from people who harm others, steal from them, or appropriate a special privilege for themselves at the expense of others.
I believe that people who are substance abusers are a drag on all of us, because they cannot and do not pull their weight. Every dollar they do not earn is $0.05 in taxes lost by the State of Colorado, and $0.15 (plus a fraction) not paid into the Social Security System which was set up to provide for people who are physically and mentally handicapped, and the aged. I feel the same way about tax evaders, and there are plenty of them around here . . . we can talk about them on another thread if you'd like. I feel the same way about white-collar criminals who victimize working people, and that includes the mortgage brokers and bankers who made money from sub-prime mortgages knowing that most of the people getting those loans would lose their homes.
I believe that people with intelligence and good health have a responsibility to contribute to the welfare of the less fortunate, but not to support people who are voluntarily under-employed or living outside the law.
I have a second home in an area where the highschool dropout rate averages 50% inside the city limits. I have witnessed kids selling drugs to each other at highschool football games. One of these transactions was conducted within 5 feet of a police officer, directly behind his back. These kids have no chance for a decent life, and most of them grow up expecting to go to jail or live on public assistance. Many of them live on the proceeds of crime, and certainly by tax evasion.
(cont.)
October 21, 2009 at 10:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
So why do I care? It doesn't affect me at all. I just happen to think that people are better than that, and are here for a higher purpose. I hate to see wasted lives. I hate to see a community collapsing on itself for lack of adult supervision. If those kids are the only ones left in town because everybody else moves away to escape the crime and poverty, what becomes of them?
The message I get from you is that you are here to get high on pot, and that you don't give a $#!+ about anybody else. I've got to believe that it's your drug abuse that colors your perceptions and desires, because otherwise, it would mean you're someone who doesn't care about the welfare of anyone else.
If you don't care how drug abuse affects other people who suffer ill effects from it, why should any of us care about your self-proclaimed "need" for massive doses of medical marijuana or believe that there's not something else that would do the job just as well, but doesn't make you feel high?
If you want me to support legal use by responsible adults, then I need to see responsible adult use and that includes doing whatever is necessary (even being a snitch) to keep the stuff out of the hands of kids. And "the stuff" includes all intoxicating and mind-altering substances.
If you get up every day, go to work, pay your bills and support your family (including medical insurance) then I'll vote to legalize marijuana for you.
Let's see a "million man medical marijuana march on Washington" that also includes a charter promoting enforcement of laws designed to keep intoxicating substances out of the hands of minors and people who cannot be productive citizens while using drugs and alcohol.
Felons can't buy guns and can't vote. Why should they be able to buy booze or pot? Get the idea?
So, if you want my support, don't tell me that cannabis is not bad. Show me that people can use it in a way that supports civic responsibility in our communities, and I'll vote for it.
October 21, 2009 at 10:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Aich, you'll have to bear with me. That's a lot of ammo to sort through there, but I give you my word I will fire back. I'm gonna take those last two comments point at a time so I can make sure you get it all.
October 21, 2009 at 10:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
"I have nothing to gain or lose by the legalization of medical marijuana. I think that a substance that provides relief to people who are suffering should be available to them. It should be legal and readily available."
Medicinal cannabis is not the issue. Not for 14 states(with 14 more still deciding) at least. The broader issue is the illegality of all strains of cannabis on a federal level. We are robbing ourselves of billions of dollars. Maybe you would call the creation of new jobs, industry and local economic boost silly, but there are quite a few of us out there that would love to "gain" these things for ourselves and our respective communities. This could be made very possible by eradicating the current drug laws that forbid the cultivation of a harmless plant. Allow me to, once again, elaborate on this. The cannabis plant strain that is grown for the purposes of making fibers, textiles and an armada of other products does, in no way, shape or form have anything to offer to anybody looking for medicinal qualities, or a "high." In fact, smoking this particular variety of cannabis has zero benefit and will most likely harm you.
Making all strands of marijuana illegal is akin to making pharmaceuticals illegal in light of their illegal street versions. It just doesn't make any sense. We need to approach things from a stance of reason. There is great despair to be had from blindly, unquestioningly following the decrees of those in positions of power. To allow this current prohibition of cannabis to continue would be no better than spitting in the faces of those that are fed the f*(#% up with the seemingly endless waste and misuse of tax-payer dollars. And there seems to be a lot of us that feel that way.
October 21, 2009 at 1:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
trump_suit ( anonymous ) says...
I will respond like I always have. The problems of drug abuse and the black market supply chain are separate and distinct. It is my opinion (supported by several historical examples) that prohibition is the primary cause of the guns, gangs and violence that are destroying the neighborhoods of which you speak. Without the black market supply of cash, this problems would dwindle to manageable levels.
The problem of drug abuse is primarily a personal one and should be dealt with more openly than the current legal system allows. Throwing addicts and troubled individuals in jail does not help them with their addictions and exposes them to more of the same. Education and treatment are far more effective.
October 21, 2009 at 1:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Aich- I'll go ahead and pass on what would have been my next rebuttal to your comments. It seems as though trump has made the point about addiction for me.
So instead I'll tackle,
"I am not a right-wing conservative. I haven't been in a church but twice in the past 10-15 years, and both times it was for someone else's wedding. I didn't vote for Bush or McCain : I voted against their opponents. I support health-care reform, a woman's right to have an abortion, and meaningful public safety laws. At the same time, I think an elective abortion for contraception is murder, but it's a murder on the mother's account, and she can answer for it to God if he exists and/or cares about such trivia. I don't want any religious zealot telling me how to live, but I support the right of our society to protect itself from people who harm others, steal from them, or appropriate a special privilege for themselves at the expense of others."
First of all, no one here cares what your views are on abortion or political affiliation. That's another debate for another time and place. In regards to the latter part of the above quote, I surely hope that you're not implicating cannabis users as the ones that are harming people, stealing or appropriating special privilege. If this is the case, I would love to see the volumes of case files you must have on all of the violent cannabis users out there. My money says these things don't exist, largely in part to the fact that I've never seen of heard of someone going into a fit of rage right after smoking(unless, of coarse, you count "Reefer Madness" as evidence). As far as stealing goes, you must be referencing your comments about taxes and whatnot. This can all not only be fixed, but improved ten-fold if this country would wake up and start utilizing industrial hemp to offset some of the disastrous effects that have manifested out of our current employment, financial and housing fustercluckery. Let's use our brains and our knowledge of horticulture to pull ourselves out of the wonderful pit that our most recent former president put us in.
And special privilege at the expense of others? Really? Please explain, if this is in fact directed at cannabis users.
October 21, 2009 at 2:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Ok next....."I believe that people with intelligence and good health have a responsibility to contribute to the welfare of the less fortunate, but not to support people who are voluntarily under-employed or living outside the law."
The only reason these people are living outside of the law is because there exists a law absurd enough to prohibit a plant.
And voluntarily under-employed? Are you making another attempt at, yet another, broad-sweeping, generalized stereotype about the inherent laziness of "stoners"? Or are you just one of the nutty Americans that wants to work their ass off, all of the time, for the rest of their life and wants everyone else to be just as miserable as they are?
October 21, 2009 at 3:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
"I have a second home in an area where the highschool dropout rate averages 50% inside the city limits. I have witnessed kids selling drugs to each other at highschool football games. One of these transactions was conducted within 5 feet of a police officer, directly behind his back. These kids have no chance for a decent life, and most of them grow up expecting to go to jail or live on public assistance. Many of them live on the proceeds of crime, and certainly by tax evasion."
First of all, upon witnessing this alleged drug deal, did you go and speak to the police officer about the crime? Or were you just another "not-give-a-damn" American? Did you walk out your big talk?
Secondly, you're talking about something that is a parental responsibility. Maybe the drop-outs aren't fortunate enough to have parents that give a damn. Quit trying to take all of the world's problems and hold cannabis responsible for them. Train parents to raise kids better, train cops to be better cops, train teachers and coaches to be more attentive to the kids in their hallways but don't you dare tell me that keeping cannabis illegal and wasting more money on a futile drug war is going to fix any of the problems in society today. The only thing this current cannabis prohibition is successful at is creating the black market for it and robbing the people of this nation of their hard-earned tax dollars that could, otherwise, be used productively.
October 21, 2009 at 3:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
"The message I get from you is that you are here to get high on pot, and that you don't give a $#!+ about anybody else. I've got to believe that it's your drug abuse that colors your perceptions and desires, because otherwise, it would mean you're someone who doesn't care about the welfare of anyone else.
If you don't care how drug abuse affects other people who suffer ill effects from it, why should any of us care about your self-proclaimed "need" for massive doses of medical marijuana or believe that there's not something else that would do the job just as well, but doesn't make you feel high?"
You have, once again, managed to take my line of words and tie it into a monkey's fist. The truth is that, yes, drug abuse is horrible. I've never denied that or tried to imply anything to the contrary. In fact, drug abuse is one of the countless issues that could be better addressed by our nation if it would stop wasting money on pursuing the eradication of cannabis. You're a fool if you think that cannabis is the most abused or even the most dangerous of all the drugs out there. My point is, we're only wasting time and money on something that was, and still is, never going to be "winnable" anyway. The simple fact of the matter is that there are plenty of bigger fish this country needs to be busy frying instead of the current cannabis carp that's stuck to the pan.
October 21, 2009 at 3:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandmama ( anonymous ) says...
You know, if Aich's argument is that pot dulls the mind ect ect ect...
mmj- I wonder, did you, like before you inhaled, have an IQ of like, you know 384 or something....dude?
(rebuttals very well written, and informative, and SUPER points scored with the "not give a damn American" comment. Your stance on parenting also give food for thought as to the problems with todays youth. Good job!)
October 21, 2009 at 3:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
"If you want me to support legal use by responsible adults, then I need to see responsible adult use and that includes doing whatever is necessary (even being a snitch) to keep the stuff out of the hands of kids. And "the stuff" includes all intoxicating and mind-altering substances."
If you think you're going to find someone out there that thinks these things should be in the hands of children, I'd love to take a look at your catch. The idea that anyone here is promoting usage by children under the age of 18 is absurd and insulting. There is no arguing that the people who provide harmful things to kids should be locked away for very long periods of time......duh. This goes back to my parenting and cop argument. These people are in these positions because they're supposed to be responsible for the protection of the priceless assets we know as children. If they should prove to be inept at performing this responsibility, then they should be removed from under this burden. There is no room in our society for people that hurt kids.
Historically speaking, the argument that making cannabis legal will ultimately destroy a society and it's youth is baseless and untrue. Societies that have less restriction and more understanding, regarding cannabis, subsequently have less problems with abuse due to the fact that the black market is neutralized by regulation and monitoring. The people in these societies are educated on both the dangers and the benefits of cannabis and they are all the better for it.
October 21, 2009 at 3:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
And please allow me to digress for a moment to something I should have covered on the 3:37 post.
"The message I get from you is that you are here to get high on pot, and that you don't give a $#!+ about anybody else. I've got to believe that it's your drug abuse that colors your perceptions and desires, because otherwise, it would mean you're someone who doesn't care about the welfare of anyone else."
Quick question for you aich. What, in the hell, could you possibly know about my drug abuse? Do you somehow know my name? Are you some long lost friend from my past that's come to save me from the fires of a hemp hell?
If you had said nothing else in this debate, this quote alone would be plenty of evidence to support the idea that you're ignorant and desperately reaching out for something that might stomp the fight out of me or the validity out of my argument. Well, aich, you've picked the wrong "stoner" to try your verbal jousting aptitude against. Feel free to childishly sling mud all over the place and make a mess of yourself for as long as you want. Just don't expect it to get you anywhere in talking about responsible adults.
October 21, 2009 at 4:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
This one is a fun one:
"If you don't care how drug abuse affects other people who suffer ill effects from it, why should any of us care about your self-proclaimed "need" for massive doses of medical marijuana or believe that there's not something else that would do the job just as well, but doesn't make you feel high?"
It's not so much a lack of care for those that abuse harmful drugs, but more for the opinions of those that would use abusers as a point for their argument against RE-legalizing cannabis. Whether it's legal or not, the people that abuse it will find a way to get. Simply making a law directed at abusers will not curb the issue either.
Secondly, none of you, not a soul on this earth, should care about my need for medicinal cannabis. Truth be told, it's none of your f*ing business. My choice of medication vs. another person's choice of medication is completely irrelevant.
Even if there were another substance, man-made or natural, on this planet that could provide the same relief that cannabis does, which there is not, what the hell right would you, or anybody, have to tell me to take it, as opposed to cannabis? Are we creeping into a socialized medicine debate?
I would also be curious to see what information you can offer about the vast sums of evil that are allegedly produced by abusing cannabis. The worst thing that happens to me when I over-medicate, if such a thing is even possible with cannabis, is a, sometimes severe, dryness of the mouth and moderate rumbling of the stomach. Both of these "side effects" are readily curable and easy to overcome, unless you find yourself in the middle of a desert without any food or water. However, should you find yourself in this situation, you have probably ingested something a bit heavier than any cannabis I've ever smoked and you should most likely find a way to contact a physician.
To achieve fatal levels of THC in your system, you would need to smoke an amount of cannabis that would be humanly impossible for anyone to smoke and live to tell about it. As a matter of fact, when the US government tried to substantiate their claims of death by cannabis, they had to attach gas-masks to the test monkeys. I'll repeat that: They attached gas-masks to monkeys that they were deliberately trying to kill with marijuana. The monkeys did, in fact, pass away. However, the cause of death could not be pinned on THC overdose. The cause of death was the smoke itself. The unfortunate side of being a mammal is that when you substitute smoke, of any flavor, in place of the oxygen that is desperately needed by your lungs and blood, you will suffer from asphyxiation(suffocation, lack of lung function). The only thing that this study proved is something that firefighters have known since the inception of their necessity; too much smoke, at one time, can kill you deader than dead.
October 21, 2009 at 5:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
"If you get up every day, go to work, pay your bills and support your family (including medical insurance) then I'll vote to legalize marijuana for you.
Let's see a "million man medical marijuana march on Washington" that also includes a charter promoting enforcement of laws designed to keep intoxicating substances out of the hands of minors and people who cannot be productive citizens while using drugs and alcohol.
Felons can't buy guns and can't vote. Why should they be able to buy booze or pot? Get the idea?
So, if you want my support, don't tell me that cannabis is not bad. Show me that people can use it in a way that supports civic responsibility in our communities, and I'll vote for it."
There you go again with that BS about cannabis users being nothing but a bunch of shiftless, worthless deadbeats. Who keeps feeding you these lies about these people? And where did you get the idea that any of us want there to be some reckless, haphazard, anarchy-based system for cannabis that would somehow put a blunt in every kids lunch-box? You seem to think that we want medicinal cannabis grown and sold on every street corner in the nation. Where do you come up with this crap? Obviously, and it kinda goes without saying, there needs to be oversight and monitoring of whatever system is used to make sure that the right people are getting what need and the people that don't need it get none. This isn't going to be some magical "wave o' the wand" operation that we'll have the luxury of "setting&forgetting," if you will. Once again, there is going to have to be a cooperative effort between the police, parents and the leaders of the cannabis industry. This is already well recognized and put into use. Every single medicinal marijuana law in America has provisions that prohibit this substance from being too close to schools and children. The enforcement of these policies is left up to the police and the cooperation of dispensaries in this matter must be beyond reproach.
Oh, and as for a million of us marching on our capital, could you imagine the spin Fox could throw on that? "Mob of Mental, Malicious Medical Marijuana Monsters storm our nation's capital."
Anyway, who needs to march? How much was truly accomplished by the original Million Man March? Are you blind to validity of the fact that there are now 14 states in our union that have shown majority support of medicinal use of marijuana? How many people do you think are represented by those votes? I'd bet it's more than a million, by far.
October 22, 2009 at 10:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
One of the reasons that hemp cultivation is outlawed is that the hemp plant and the marijuana plant are so similar that anyone who wanted a little magic garden would only have to put it in the middle of a few acres of hemp and nobody would ever see it without going through plant-by-plant.
I don't say I support the logic. That's just what it is.
My second home is currently surrounded by several hundred acres of cotton plants. They're just starting the harvest. They also grow peanuts and wheat on the same land in a rotation plan. Industrial hemp would probably be much cheaper to grow and more productive than cotton, with the added benfit that after they're done, my front yard wouldn't look like a football field full of tampons.
When you say the parents are responsible for the dropout rate, you are partially right. What about their parents? Drop-outs who are children of drop-outs who are children of drop-outs are the problem. It's been going on for generations and will continue. Drugs, and pot in particular, have been a part of the problem at least since the 1960s, and probably before that in some urban areas.
I would be willing to bet that there have been plenty of liquor store and convenience store robberies in urban areas where some or all of the proceeds were used to purchase marijuana for personal use or resale. Gotta get "seed money" from somewhere.
I think that when you attack me as a conservative Bush-loving etc. then my politics and religion are germane to the discussion.
The thing I know about your drug use is what you have admitted yourself, and the apparent effects it has on your memory and perceptions. You fit the DSM diagnostic criteria for drug abuse just based on the information given in your posts.
Finally, anoxia (lack of oxygen) provides pain relief all by itself. I've long believed that the initial rush of pot was due to lack of oxygen rather than the immediate effects of THC. As I discovered when I was a teenager, if you inhale cigarette smoke and hold it down, it makes you feel lightheaded. Sound familiar?
I'm not trying to change your mind about anything. I'm just trying to point out that marijuana (among other substances) is a huge social problem in this country, and it will take an effort comparable to that leading up to The Civil Rights Act of 1964 to change the status quo.
Abortion was a hotly debated issue for decades until the Roe Vs. Wade decison by the U S Supreme Court. It would take the mmjpatient vs. Obama decision to do the same for hemp/pot/cannabis.
October 22, 2009 at 10:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
trump_suit ( anonymous ) says...
Aich, Although culture and family play a role in our gang problems, the largest single contributor is money. When these inner city kids can make 1000's of dollars on the street selling drugs, they can puchase any weapon wanted. There is simply no way to encourage them to get acceptable jobs when the money disparity is so large.
When you combine large amounts of cash with automatic weapons you get gangs and violence that cannot be stopped by our under armed Police forces. Taking away the flow of money by eliminating the black market will do more to keep our youth out of the gang culture than any other single thing that can be done.
The problems of drug use, abuse and addiction are well documented, and you are not wrong when you discuss the negative effects of those issues. However, those issues are actually separate and distinct from the issues with Guns, gangs and violence. As always with human greed, it is the money that creates the problem. Take away the money and the problem becomes more manageable.
October 23, 2009 at 8:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Bravo Trump! I don't think I could have said it better myself.
However, not to detract from what's already been said, the differentiation between the word "use" and the word "abuse" seems to be missing from many of the opposition's statements. Most every anti-drug website qualifies use and abuse as the same thing. I think that if there's to be any hope for the naysayers, they will have to re-work their entire argument, from start to finish, in an attempt to more clearly communicate their concerns.
October 23, 2009 at 9:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Trump,
And, again, I'll tell you that the gang and violence problems are so big that removing the drug trade would only turn them to other types of crime. Home invasions, bank robberies, supermarkets, etc., would be next.
You are missing the fact that gangs are already willing to murder people and suffer their own fate, including death, out of hopelessness. The "technicals" in Somalia are a better example of what we'd have without the drug trade. Murder, mayhem and martial law would be the result of a general breakdown in law and order.
Recreational use has created an enterprise which can't just be shut off. What is a 21 year old illiterate felon going to do when his cash flow dries up? Go back to college, get a degree, move to Steamboat, buy a house in SB700 and telecommute? The problem goes back to the Spanish conquest of the New World, slavery, and everything evil that has been tolerated in our society ever since.
Our problems stem from overpopulation, unemployment, underemployment and lack of parenting, to name just a few. None of those problems would be solved by legalization of drugs even though drugs have played a role in all of those areas, and more.
You cannot have a free and peaceful society. Without sever restrictions on behavior which restrict freedom, disorder will prevail. If people would be peaceful voluntarily, we wouldn't need police or military forces.
The war on drugs is, indeed, a wasteful use of our national resources, but the people causing the waste are the drug users and traffickers, not the people trying to stop it.
The "surge" worked in Iraq. There was a "surge" yesterday against La Familia, where something like 1500 people were arrested all across the country.
We don't need to close Gitmo. We need to take everything from there, move it to places like Midway and Wake island, and Adak Alaska, and relocate traffickers to penal colonies so far from the mainland that escape is physically impossible. Put them out there without drugs or weapons, and let them fish and farm and kill each other off until the problem solves itself.
By the way, I have often been challegned to provide evidence of offical wrongdoing. The current story in the news of the former ACET officer under investigation for, among other things, giving out official police information ought to give you some idea why ACET never seems to capture anyone "important" around here. The cops have to literally stumble over the traffickers while looking for something else in order for a "respectable" person (with a home and a job, etc.) to be busted for trafficking. Several recent cases illustrate my point.
With the amount of drugs floating around this town, and the population of users at all socioeconomic levels, either the police are not looking for drugs in the nice neighborhoods, or can't get search warrants, or people are being tipped off by insiders. Probably, it's all of the above.
October 23, 2009 at 10:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
trump_suit ( anonymous ) says...
Aich,
If your points about gangs and violence continuing regardless then why does the historical record give a different answer?
WHen this county imposed prohibition on alchohol, we experienced significant growth in the problems of Guns, Gangs, violence and bootlegging. Just like the blakc market for drugs today. Al Capone literally ran Chicago and had the money and influence to keep it that way.
Once prohibition ended, the police were able to catch up with and control the mob element largely because their money ran tight and they no longer had the influence and political control that comes with excess cash.
Sound even vaguely familiar? The black market for drugs has created the same problems that the prohibition of alchohol did. "Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it."
Ending the black market supply chain may not completely fix those problems, but it would go a long ways towards getting it under control. IT"S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!
October 23, 2009 at 3:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
trump,
History shows that when the alcohol money dried up, the Italian Mafia went into other businesses and used threats and violence to limit competition. Illegal drugs were part of it.
The mayhem that would be caused by legalization of all drugs would be enormous. Where do you draw the line? Do you want to get counterfeit drugs from China into the system for things like high cholesterol, sleep disorders and herpes? Imagine college kids overdosing on heroin. How about Ecstacy from a vending machine next to the rubbers at the gas station. Have you really thought this out?
A much better idea is closer regulation of the financial system to prevent tax evasion and black market transactions. How? Require all cash purchases over $10 to be tagged with an official government ID and reported to the IRS. Make people account for the source of their money. Require everybody to have a bank account and use a debit card or EFT for most transactions. The federal government already requires all employees to participate in EFT for their paychecks; the money goes straight to a bank account on payday. No paper checks are issued at all.
If the underground cash economy was compelled to pay income taxes as required by law, all of us would pay less. The deficit would disappear. Drug enterprises would be deterred and crippled by the ability to track people who spend money without earning it through a traceable source.
Like you said, it's all about the money.
October 24, 2009 at 2:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Aich- Where do you get your crazy pills from? I guess you haven't thought out any of the logistical nightmares involved in recording all cash transactions, that are over $10, for subsequent IRS review. You know, the banks already have something like this in place? Every time a private citizen transacts $10,000 or more with a bank, a mandatory notification is sent to the IRS. I guess they decided that investigating/tracking every cash transaction over $10 dollars would be a bit ludicrous. Could you imagine being audited for stopping off at a convenience store and paying cash for a pack of Camels, a Lg coffee, a pack of gum and crappy week-old blueberry danish?
You really should put more thought into the things you say. Why don't we just rename it, "The United States of The Bank of America" or, "The United States of Financial Dictatorship?"
October 24, 2009 at 9:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Wow. You really rose to the bait on that one.
Tracking cash would kill the drug trade as well as the tax evaders. All this without legalizing dangerous drugs . . .
9 out of 10 people ahead of me in line are paying with checks or credit cards. The banks are already keeping records anyway.
Social security and ID numbers are already online. It would not be that hard to tie a drivers license number or other official ID card into the system to make this happen. We live in a different world since 9/11, and you can't get on an airplane without a government issued ID anymore. It's just a matter of one more type of transaction and no different from what's already being done for most transactions anyway.
October 24, 2009 at 10:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
The amount of personal freedoms, privacy and rights that have been abandoned since 9/11, in the name of "security & protection," is horrifying. The USA PATRIOT act is a shameful piece of legislation to be upheld by an allegedly "free" nation.
And, honestly, am I the only one that sees the inherent difficulty in tracking cash on a national, per-capita basis? What could we possibly stand to gain by doing this? We all know that tangible paper money and real metal coinage will be a thing of historical reference in the not-so-distant future. The advances in technology, especially in RFID microchip technology, are already pushing their way into our daily lives. Now, all you have to do is wave a credit card at something and your account will be charged. Amazing.
The money is all fake and worthless anyway. It hasn't been worth anything ever since they abolished the gold-standard. Soon enough, there will be a micro-chip injected into every baby born in a hospital. Money will become credits issued to your identity number on a regular basis, unless, of coarse, you're not a good little worker bee like all the rest. This will be done to make sure that all of the little slaves in the system feel justified and validated in playing their part. "I work, therefore, I live and I live, therefore, I work," and "Good thing I have this job to take care of me. What ever would become of me without it?"
The ones that don't participate will be ostracized and cast-out from their midst, as to keep the others from being contaminated. All I can say is I'm just thankful that there have been people in my life that have been patient enough to teach me wilderness survival skills. With the limitless array of technologically advanced weaponry and destruction that mankind has been able to bring upon itself in the past, I will be flat out shocked if we(the world) survive technology. Eventually, someone is bound to be dumb enough to abuse technology to the point where most of mankind will be forced into the decision of being hopelessly enslaved if they do or helplessly damned if they don't.
But, apparently, marijuana is the biggest concern facing some.
October 24, 2009 at 11:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
The truth comes out.
We must be able to live without working at a square job that pays taxes to the lawfully elected government chartered with protecting us and providing the infrastructure that allows our society to exist.
Let's take an inventory here, mmj. You have wilderness survival skills. You are a veteran. You're obviously literate and somewhat cogent. So, what's the problem with having a job where you get up and go to work every day and support yourself? Is it that you can't have the kind of job you want AND smoke marijuana all day long?
There's a movie you need to see. "Little Big Man," starring Dustin Hoffman. The hermit segment applies here, I think.
The challenges provided by technology also provide increased protections of our freedoms. If you think that people are not already being screwed over by the system, you are wrong. I've had thousands of dollars stolen from me under color of law in Routt County, and the irony of your comments is that better tracking of cash and property transactions would easily show who has been involved in the outright theft of cash from me for diversion into personal profits enjoyed by others.
A good business accounts for all its cash and property. If our governments did the same, corruption would be damn near impossible. When the books are balanced and somebody ends up with too much, then it's time to check the pants for bundles of money, if you get my drift. The more money and the more accountability that is tracked by the more automated systems, the harder it will be for criminals to victimize the rest of us. That also means that it will be harder for petty criminals and drug traffickers to launder the proceeds of their illegal enterprises.
We're all about four minutes from brain death all the time. Life is tenuous, and individual lives don't really mean that much. Hitler's Germany and the former Soviet Union prove that authoritarian governments can abuse their citizens, but also, in the information age where everyone knows everything just about as soon as it happens, there is far less chance of anyone being able to gain that much power or do that much damage alone. The real danger is that NOTHING will get done because you cannot obtain a majority to decide to do it.
Think about it; if it was impossible for people to live by criminal activity, our society would have far more resources to devote to productive activity. Everything would be cheaper because of lower costs. We'd all pay less in taxes because everybody would be paying taxes.
And, uh, (cough - cough), you seem to be the one most concerned about a steady supply of marijuana . . . .
October 25, 2009 at 9:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Aich- Believe me, as far as concerns go, a steady supply of marijuana isn't really something that I have to worry about. With the amount of dispensaries in this state, people that hold medical cards don't have to worry about that kind of thing. That's pretty much the whole point.
And a majority? Aich, I think the fact that there are an ever-increasing number of states that contain a majority vote for medicinal approval of cannabis, speaks for itself. There is no better data to provide the basis for analyzing the national view of marijuana. To boot, the new federal marijuana guidelines in place will finally provide law enforcement authorities with the opportunity to go after some of the problems that far out-weigh marijuana. I eagerly await the news stories that depict the real criminals and real violent offenders that will finally be able to be brought to justice because of renewed resources in the law enforcement community.
Having had law enforcement in my own family, my heart truly does go out to cops. They should be better funded and better equipped to battle the true evils that exist in society today. There should be way more funding for Internal Affairs in order to ensure that our protectors are above reproach and not involved in corruption. Maybe there's a way to prevent the type of power abuse that manifested in Pittsburgh during the recent G20 summit. Maybe we, the tax-payers, need to bear a little more fiscal responsibility and make sure that our taxes aren't being wasted, misused or abused by those that have been entrusted with them. I just hope that it's not too late to reverse the damage incurred by our recent years of civic irresponsibility. The world doesn't look at America the way it once did. Somehow, America's great name was allowed to be soiled, again. The most unfortunate part of the whole deal is that the ones that caused most of the problem(s) won't live long enough to be part of the solution. The younger generations are going to have to bear the brunt of the load. The burden will be out of their hands, if it isn't already.
October 25, 2009 at 12:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sledneck ( anonymous ) says...
Jesus, you people really need a job!
October 25, 2009 at 3:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
I've got a great job, sledster.
mmj,
Put down the Kool-Aid. The rest of the World can go take a flying leap. Know how I know?
People are still risking their lives to leave other countries and live here illegally because of the freedoms and opportunities we enjoy.
Successful immigrants don't share liberal values. They already know what socialism, poverty and oppression are like in those countries that allow liberal and social practices to prevail.
Start with the Cubans in FLorida, and move on up to D.C. to talk to the Africans and Asians. Convenience stores all over the southeast are being taken over by Indians and Pakistanis. They're all going to be great Americans one day, and they'll get to be that way by hard work and integrity -- things American schools have forgotten to emphasize lately.
The key is that people who are willing to work to get ahead won't abide those who wait for a handout.
Run down to the Kum-n-Go at The Curve and take a look. That's the future of America -- not the pot dispensary.
October 25, 2009 at 3:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
"The rest of the World can go take a flying leap."
It's attitudes like this that make a lot of Americans really angry. If you truly believe that freedom and democracy is the best thing since sliced bread, then surely you believe that everyone should be governed in a like manner. I mean, if the whole world was as fortunate as we are, in this nation, could you even imagine what it would be like? Almost unimaginable. But it's a worthy aspiration. However, the attitude of, "we're the best, so who the hell cares what anyone else thinks," doesn't accomplish much past notifying with those around that you've discovered a way to reverse the path of standard defecation and store vast sums of waste in your cranium.
There is no denying that this nation wouldn't be half of what it is today with-out the people that have legally emigrated from their native lands in hopes of a better future here. That's how America became a nation in the first place. Nevertheless, should the current invasion of illegal immigrants be allowed to continue, our nation will suffer great consequences on multiple levels. The necessity for peoples of other cultures to be a part of ours is undeniable, but the current citizenry of this nation should be our nation's primary concern. If we can't take care of ourselves, how the hell can we offer advice to other people on how to live?
Some would have us believe that a dispensary, and maybe even the marijuana industry in whole, has nothing to positively contribute to their respective current, and/or future, locales. The numbers on legalizing marijuana tell a different tale. According to California state tax collectors, over $1.3 billion US dollars in tax revenues, annually, could be generated by enacting the Marijuana Control, Regulation and Education Act (AB 390) that is currently being decided in their state. Extrapolate that on a national scale, even just the current 14 states that have medical marijuana laws, and consider the revenues that could be generated from the federal RE-legalization of industrial cannabis for paper, clothing, food and bio-fuels production, and it becomes very easy to start seeing all of the needs in our country that could be met by these enormous funds. The best part is, by RE-legalizing the substance that such a voluminous black market has been created around, the foundation of the marijuana black market, and all of the lovely things that come with a black market, will be compromised and begin to crumble away. The financial benefits alone warrant the RE-legalization of cannabis.
I'd like to see what Kum'n'Go has to offer in the arena of economic stimulus and improving the vision of the future for America.
October 30, 2009 at 11:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mtroach ( anonymous ) says...
I saw on the news that Breckenridge is thinking about total legalization. It's on this Nov. ballot.
October 31, 2009 at 8:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Well, now that the federal guidelines leave the governing and regulating of marijuana to the local and state officials, it will be much easier for small(er) communities to decide for themselves. It will be interesting to see the geographical and regional differentiation between pot laws. Someone needs to start up a cartography company that distributes maps to medical marijuana patients, like me and at least 45 others in Routt county, that delineates safe zones for our medication. With such an option left to be determined by local governments there are bound to be conflicting, or at least mutually indifferent, laws regarding the possession of medical marijuana.
This is one article that put a smile on my face;
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flight...
October 31, 2009 at 10:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
Wrong, mmj.
Medical, yes. All other uses, no.
Sigh.
It would be interesting to know how you make your living. Most of your business ideas seem to revolve around ways to make a profit from cannabis.
Roach,
Breckenridge cannot legalize marijuana for general use. It's still against the federal laws, and they will enforce it.
November 1, 2009 at 8:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
If you have to resort to pointing out technicalities to give yourself the ground needed to declare that I'm wrong, maybe you should re-count how many valid points you have laying around. And regardless of whether it's medical or not, the police forces of this country have way more and way bigger fish to fry other than marijuana. That's the bottom line.
My business revolves around the weather. And even if my job was to grow/sell pot, I've got a fancy little card from my state government that says it's ok, as long as all of my dealings are with other people that have the fancy little card. Even if there were no medical marijuana regulations, anywhere, I'd still be adamant about RE-legalizing cannabis. There hasn't been a single bit of "fact" presented to me that's given me the overwhelming reason to believe that cannabis should be eradicated from the face of the earth. In fact, everything I've seen on the subject has only served to point out the absurdities that envelope the current war on marijuana.
What are you so worried about for me anyway? What concern are any of my business dealings to you?
November 1, 2009 at 9:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sledneck ( anonymous ) says...
Roll 'em big
Smoke 'em slow
Wear sun glasses
So the boss won't know
November 1, 2009 at 4:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
There's always eye drops.
November 1, 2009 at 4:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
trump_suit ( anonymous ) says...
"Breckenridge cannot legalize marijuana for general use. It's still against the federal laws, and they will enforce it."
Thats funny Aich, you said almost the same thing about the mmj laws and yet they are passed and active. A very similar initiative was defeated statewide by Colorado voters a couple of years ago and there are several States that are considering exactly these initiatives in 2010 or 2012.
So how is it not possible, please tell us just how exactly are the Fed's going to subvert the will of the people in these cases? In case you haven't noticed, the groundswell is moving against you on this issue. From California to Maine there are ballot measures coming.
Funny how almost the oppposite is happening in the Gay Marriage referendums. In those referendums the public has stood up and denied each and every one of them. Seems to me that John Q Public is making their voice heard and the Government is being forced to listen. These two issues have absolutely nothing to do with each other, but in each case the will of the people is beginning to force policy.
November 2, 2009 at 9:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
And just to add a level of clarification for you aich, the purpose of the law in Breck is to legalize, for all adults, the possession of up to 1 oz. of marijuana, medical or not, and all bongs, pipes and other pot paraphernalia.
Is that "taps" I hear being played off in the distance? Or is the rhythmic beating the result of people everywhere pounding their own personal nail into the coffin where the marijuana prohibition lies?
Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10...
November 3, 2009 at 9:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
The silence is almost deafening in here. Over three whole days and nothing? We're all waiting for your next point.
November 6, 2009 at 4:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Actually, over 5 whole days since your last post Aich. You go on vacation or something? I find it hard to believe you've given up, if that's the case.
November 6, 2009 at 4:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
mmj,
No more sense in arguing with a stump . . . or is it a stem?
When Judge Garrecht tried to hold officers in contempt who were enforcing a federal law in the Don Nord case, a federal judge in Denver quashed it on grounds of The Supremacy Clause and The Controlled Substances Act.
I think the point you're both missing ( you and trump) is that I'm not against legalization of pot. I merely claim it will never happen because of the destructive effects that substance abuse have in the lower-income sectors of our great nation. People who have survived in virtual war zones, surrounded by poverty, illegitimacy, gangs, drug-driven autogenocide of young African American men, etc., will never support it. The African American female heads of households understand the issues involving drug use, crime and gang violence. They are the voters who will hold the key to the pot legalization issue on a national basis.
Now, as for pot users, anyone who can use responsibly as an adult should have the right to do so. It should not be against the law, and would not be, except for the history of abuse.
Did you happen to see the story over the weekend about the woman who claimed that pot was the only medicine that would help her? She went the wrong way down a one-way road and killed a couple of people. Herself included, I think.
Long-term substance abuse of any kind can alter a person's ability to make sound decisions. When that impacts innocent bystanders and society as a whole, it becomes a public health issue.
mmj, I have come to understand that you are so hooked on the effects of THC that you cannot think and act responsibly. It's only a matter of time until you pay the price. I suspect you're already paying it now in terms of relationships, economics and long-term security. I think the physical cause may be your claimed dopamine deficiency, and the brain wants what it wants . . . to feel good.
People who are mentally ill and/or drug dependent experience personality changes that others can readily see. I've seen it in my own home. Bizarre behavior generally has a cause, and it's ever more tragic when the person exhibiting the behavior thinks there's nothing wrong with what they're doing.
So, I haven't given up. I don't have a dog in the legalization fight, and I've made it clear that if you want to deal with me in business, you come with money from visible sources if you're buying, or you come clean and sober if you're selling. Otherwise, I don't want you in my home or my business.
Oh, but if they DO legalize hemp, I'll be growing it for a profit. I have enough fenced acres to make it worth my while, and enough big dogs out patrolling it to keep out the riff-raff.
November 9, 2009 at 8:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Aich, first and foremost, your attempt at humor was shameful. Don't ever quit your day job. Secondly, Mr. Nord's case was all the way back in the Bush era, back when DEA had free-reign to do whatever the hell they wanted when they found a poor, old guy in a wheelchair that had a medical card from his state. The DEA officers should have been suspended without pay and forced to take classes on state law. Those slimy agents got off lucky, on a technicality. But, like I said, that was Bush era. Now that there's an actual brain, containing actual intelligence, in the White House things are going a bit differently. Next, I could care less about your views on RE-legalizing marijuana. The hypocrisy of your entire argument is made evident by your admission that you wouldn't mind growing it and making a profit off of it. I will continue to correct the BS that you try to preach.
The RE-legalization of marijuana is no more impossible than the repeal of the prohibition of alcohol. The nation is demonstrating this state-by-state. By 2010, there could be medical marijuana laws in over 40% of the states. Are all of the black mothers living in the other states aich? What about California? Ever heard of a little place called Oakland(affectionately known to it's medical community as Oaksterdam)? How many black mothers do you estimate live in these areas? And to boot, how dare you even bring race into the whole debate! "African American" mothers, to make sure to get my political-correctness in here, have absolutely nothing to do with legalization on a national scale. The only thing they have to worry about is being a good mother to their child(ren), just like every other maternal figure on the planet. The fact that you have to try to play some sort of race card in this argument is exemplary evidence of just how inept you are at arguing this topic.
And let's talk about abuse. You claim that marijuana was made illegal because of our innate inability to control ourselves while under it's influence. This could not consist of any less truth. The Marijuana Tax Stamp act of 1937, the piece of legislation that began the prohibition of marijuana, was enacted to enable law enforcement to arrest Mexican immigrants for possession of cannabis. Read a book or two.
You seem to be left with nothing other than imagining, in your head, how miserable, destitute and impoverished my life must be because of marijuana. Your imagination is very creative but it's not based in reality. Reality is you know nothing about me. You've never met me, that you know of, and you honestly have no idea who I am. I could get on here and make all sorts of grand assumptions about how you live your life, but that would make me an assumptive a-hole. I know that you're a hypocrite and you belong with the rest of the sheeple that graze across our nation aimlessly.
more to come......
November 9, 2009 at 3:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
aichempty ( anonymous ) says...
mmj,
You are dead wrong. Federal law controls. Period. If you don't like it, then fight it up to the U S Supreme Court and let them tell you the same thing,
Nothing short of an armed revolution and a victory by the pro-pot revolutionaries is going to change things without an Act of Congress. In case you hadn't noticed, Congress has other problems.
You need to get out more. Go volunteer to spend a year in inner-city Atlanta, DC, Baltimore, Boston, Chicago, Detroit or some other area where 18-year-old kids can't read and tell me that marijuana is not a problem. While you're there, convince their mothers to vote for legalization of pot.
November 10, 2009 at 9:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Once again, you know nothing about who I am or what I've done with my life. You're making blind accusations that, subsequently, make an ass out of you. I've done my time in downtown LA and Pomona. I've cleaned the neighborhoods with a broom, a shovel and a wheelbarrow. I've met the destitute and hopeless that litter skid row and their burden has nothing to do with marijuana. Their burden is caused by the system that justifies putting people in jail for a plant while wearing one hat, and turns a blind eye to the crackhead lighting up on the corner while wearing another hat. So long as the corner is in the correct neighborhood, out of sight is out of mind and no one has to be the wiser. That is their burden. Bear in mind, this is the same system that made sure there was an armed presence to enforce class separation during hurricane Katrina. Would want all those poor black people getting into the nice areas, now would we? Maybe things will be different now that the President is black? However, now Sammy Sosa is white, so who knows?
November 10, 2009 at 6:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
And of coarse Congress has bigger fish to fry other than marijuana. You'd have to have been living under a rock for the last decade to think that marijuana is the biggest concern on the Congressional plate today. With the housing market, idiotic economics and unemployment ravaging the nation, there are undoubtedly larger issues than RE-legalizing marijuana. However, the benefits of RE-legalizing marijuana would prove to be a heavy hitter against the financial woes that face so many Americans currently. Industry and subsequent jobs would be created almost overnight and the needs of the nation would begin to be met with its tax revenues in under six months. To continue to ignore the benefits of RE-legalizing the plant that once helped drive our nation to the top would only serve to further bury us in our economic dismay.
November 12, 2009 at 3:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmjPatient22 ( anonymous ) says...
Well aich, ya got enough BS in ya to manage filling multiple comment boards with mindless, fear-based propaganda? It seems